Differentiation isn’t just about closeness or distance—it’s about clearly knowing where we end and others begin. We can say, “They’re tired and grumpy right now,” without giving up our cheerful mood from a peaceful morning meditation. We can adapt without losing ourselves, choosing consciously rather than reacting habitually.
Many of us with heightened empathy tend to embody another person’s emotions, making their grumpiness our own. Practicing differentiation helps us notice their state without internalizing it, allowing us to maintain our own emotional clarity and calm, even when someone else brings stormy energy into the room.
Differentiation is challenging because it involves tolerating discomfort. For example, preparing a meal lovingly and then watching someone else be disappointed requires emotional resilience. Using EFT tapping, we actively address these uncomfortable moments, building inner strength and clarity to stay true to ourselves even under pressure.
Instead of relying on external validation, we ask ourselves: “Did I act with integrity?” If we’ve lovingly prepared a meal or helped in a situation, we can acknowledge our effort regardless of others’ reactions. By validating ourselves internally, we nurture our sense of self-worth and emotional freedom.
We often feel compelled to alleviate others’ discomfort immediately—yet it’s not always helpful. For instance, when someone is hungover or grumpy, we don’t need to energetically jump in to fix their state. Allowing people to experience their discomfort without interference respects their personal growth and conserves our emotional resources.
As children, enmeshment—absorbing others’ emotional states—was crucial for survival. As adults, we can shift to a posture of response-ability, being willing and able to respond without obligation. Recognizing we no longer need survival reactions for non-life-threatening situations helps us thrive rather than merely survive emotionally.
Just like a butterfly must struggle out of its chrysalis to survive, allowing someone to face their own challenges supports genuine growth. Even if our heart urges us to intervene, differentiation guides us to remain compassionately present without interfering with their developmental process.
Many of us developed heightened empathy to monitor emotional threats in childhood. We can now gently turn down this sensitivity, trusting that we’ll notice genuine needs without overreacting to every emotional ripple around us. We use EFT tapping and mindful intentions to recalibrate this empathic awareness.
We practice asking ourselves: “How much of this discomfort belongs to me, and how much is theirs?” If we’re triggered by someone’s frustration or disappointment, checking in helps us clarify our own feelings from theirs. For example, recognizing that a child’s intense disappointment resonates with our own unresolved feelings helps us respond more skillfully.
When faced with emotional demands—especially from family or intense group dynamics—we give ourselves permission to pause and reflect. We ask, “Is this really my circus, my monkey?” and decide what genuinely feels right. For instance, deciding whether to answer a distressed late-night call from a family member becomes a conscious choice rather than an automatic obligation.
Differentiation doesn’t mean isolation—it creates a “we space” where authentic relationships thrive. Being differentiated means we are fully ourselves within relationships, clearly communicating our needs and limits, and respecting those of others. This mutual clarity fosters deeper, healthier connections built on emotional freedom and genuine understanding.
Click for Computer Generated Transcript
Yes My Circus, But NOT My Monkey
[00:00:00] Yes My Circus, But NOT My Monkey. This is a real skills workshop for better boundaries through differentiation. And I’m Rick from ThrivingNow. I’m here with Cathy Vartuli from the Intimacy Dojo and ThrivingNow. And what in the world is differentiation? Sounds like a complicated skill.
[00:00:22] It, it actually is a very complicated skill and it’s some many people never get in their lifetime.
[00:00:30] I wanna emphasize this can be challenging. It can bring up a lot of stuff. So I’m making, in the chat, we have the, the link to the tapping, but also the grounding exercises. Um. I think a lot of people think of us moving back and like, we wanna move closer to someone or further away from someone. There’s that many people are aware of that and we’ll say someone’s, oh, that person’s avoids intimacy, or that person’s like clingy.
[00:00:56] We define it. But that’s, that’s not really what differentiation is. That’s still always in relationship to the person. You’re like moving closer or further away from the person. And it’s really, it’s related to that person versus differentiation is like, if I’m differentiated from someone, I can be closer, further away, but I’m still myself.
[00:01:17] And they have their own stuff. And this is not something that most people don’t get this until their forties, fifties, sixties, if they ever get it. And some people, there’s a lot of people that just never get differentiation because a lot of us are brought up in families that they don’t have the concept to share.
[00:01:33] And we’re kind of brought up in that kind of fuse thing where I have to, and I still have plenty here, I’ve gotta take care of all of you first, and then I might worry about how I am versus, huh, how can I take care of myself and be present with other people with their mugs? So I’m not sure if it will, if it’s not clear, don’t worry, ask questions.
[00:01:53] But I think as we give examples and talk through this, it might be more clear if it’s not, it’s not a easy concept. And especially if your mindset isn’t something that’s like, had this exposure to this concept before, it might be like, what are you talking about? So, mm-hmm. Um, we encourage you to hang with us.
[00:02:11] 'cause it, it really is very powerful when you can get it. So a, an example that comes to mind, um, you’re having a good morning, you finished your meditation, you read some things that make you smile, the sun’s rising. And somebody else in your circus, your we space is kind of a thriving now concept of, of that.
[00:02:35] But somebody else comes in and they did not sleep well and they’re grumpy and you say, good morning. And they
[00:02:48] now, for those of us who have energetic connections to people, and that’s really delicious and wonderful, um, we might find that our reaction to their grumpiness is to embody that ourselves. Either, oh, my day is not as good anymore. My day is not as good anymore. And maybe we get grumpy. Maybe we get sad.
[00:03:23] I’m so sorry you had a grumpy, you know, notice that, what did I do? I gave up my energy state in order to meet somebody. Um, for those of us with the empath app right? That that’s running all the time and we get these notifications, they’re upset, they’re, they’re tired, they’re grumpy, they’re disappointed, um, and suddenly becomes, oh, I am okay now.
[00:04:00] That’s differentiation. Helps us to maintain a better energetic boundary. Mm-hmm. Differentiation says, oh, they’re tired, grumpy this morning. Yeah, okay. I may choose to adapt, but it’s, it’s an adaptation that comes from my own. Um, how do I wanna be with grumpy people? Maybe I, I quiet things down. Maybe I don’t ask a lot of questions until they get their morning nourishment or have, you know, maybe I offer, uh, to, to do something, uh, or just go ahead and do it.
[00:04:47] But I’m, I’m in the process of maintaining the integrity of my own energy and my own life, but not in the way that we’ve probably seen some people do it. There are people without the empathy app. I could, I could be, I. In immense distress. I’m guessing everybody on this call would probably feel it, even from a thousand miles away.
[00:05:14] Like, but, and there’s some people without the app, they could be in the same room and it’s not gonna, they’ll continue playing their PS five, you know, their PlayStation game. No problem. Like, Hey, can you quiet down? I’m bleeding to death. Hey. Yeah, I know, but could you quiet down? Um, now that’s, that’s differentiation.
[00:05:36] That is innate. They don’t have, I don know that’s differentiation. I think that’s indifference. It’s not in relationship. Well Right. But they don’t ever get pulled into a situation that’s true that we would call needing the skill for, to differentiate those of us that want to be empathetic and have that superpower and have it be a beautiful thing and support our thriving in those of other people.
[00:06:04] Um. That’s why we come together for a workshop around this real skill. And I just point to it because, um, it’s not, part of it is the either or either I, either I, I join with them in their monkey mess or what, and this is where, go ahead. Well, I just, you talked about like someone who’s indifferent, which is just someone who’s shut down and not feeling anything.
[00:06:37] And you’ve talked about like you accommodating them, but there’s also, if someone’s very fused, they may require, they may be like, no, no, no, you don’t feel that way. Or like trying to talk them out of it, or like, and, and then that’s, it’s hard, like I remember as a kid, my mother kind of fused with us a bit and I would say, I’m hungry.
[00:06:55] And she’s like, no, you’re not. I’m like, huh? I thought that was hard. I’m tired. No, you’re not. Huh? I thought that’s what the tired felt like. Huh. I don’t know. Like I was very confused because she couldn’t tolerate me feeling something different than her, or she didn’t have the bandwidth to, you know, she just was maxed and didn’t have the ability to take care of me at that moment.
[00:07:14] But instead of saying, I’m too busy right now, she told, she denied what I was feeling 'cause she couldn’t tolerate. And a lot of this is about being able to tolerate our own discomfort and other people’s discomfort. Mm-hmm. It doesn’t mean we have to make it happen. We don’t have to, if someone has a hangover, we don’t have to have a marching bang go through the living room, but it’s like, oh, you drank too much last night.
[00:07:37] I don’t have to be overly loud, but I don’t have to take care of you and try to make you feel better to be okay with myself. I can let you have your, your monkey on the couch and I can go, you know, and I could be with my discomfort of not trying to make you feel all better. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm.
[00:07:55] There’s a lot, you know, there’s some, there’s quite a bit of muscle building when you say that. There’s, there’s discomfort and, and I think the muscle building is, and that’s why we use EFT tapping. If you’re, um, if you’re not with us, live and see the link in the chat, thriving now.com/tapping is where you can learn about it.
[00:08:13] We’re not gonna be teaching that, but we’re gonna use it for the discomfort. So
[00:08:24] we set the stage here for like, okay, if it is your circus, you’re, you have a role, you have, uh, things that you take on it. You may have an act. You, you know, like I’m the simpleton chef of our family, um, within the circus of feeding, um, the four animals here. Um, putting myself. There’s, there’s certain roles and things that, that come along with that, but somebody else’s hunger or lack of it, somebody else’s like or dislike of it.
[00:09:02] Um, if, if somebody says, yes, I’d like that, and I make it and I put it in front of them, and now they don’t, they’re not feeling the yes. Notice how there’s a discomfort there now for me. Would you agree? Would you say, Cathy, that, that if I’m differentiated, it’s like, oh yeah, well I did my part, I gave them some nourishment.
[00:09:28] It’s no longer their yes. Mm-hmm. But that’s a bit of their own challenge right now, especially, you know, it, I can, I can share an aspect of it, but the discomfort is something I tap on. So like I. I might feel right. You disappointed that you went up to the effort and they didn’t, it’s not pleasing to them, but you’re not trying to make them like it.
[00:09:51] Yeah. And what happens often is that their frustration, I their frustration or their, like, I can have it, uh, you know, between parents and kids. There’s a, there’s a growing differentiation that happens over a lifetime, hopefully. Um, so I might just start tapping my collarbone point about the discomfort that would have me jump through all kinds of hoops.
[00:10:21] Okay. So now I’m, now I’m the one jumping through the hoops, uh, rather than what Okay. Calming. This is frustrating. This is frustrating. I, I often just say that inside myself, well, this is frustrating. This doesn’t feel good like I hoped it would. This does this, this does, this act is not working. It’s not working.
[00:10:47] Nobody is applauding. No one’s applauding, and this is uncomfortable. This is uncomfortable. It’s frustrating. It’s frustrating. And how do I want to feel? How do I wanna feel?
[00:11:10] I think just that, just to the inner experience can be, I don’t know how it’ll be for you if that’s the type of experience you have, but one of the things that you’ll notice is, well, how do I feel about the meal? Right? Like, oh, I’m actually looking forward to this one. I. It smells good. I put some TLC into it.
[00:11:30] Yeah. So I at least am aware of how I feel. Um, and it can work both ways. If I’m not happy with the way it turned out and I tap on that, I’m like, well, I’m not happy, but I don’t know how everyone else will be. And today everybody love the sweet potatoes except for me. Right? Like, weird, isn’t it? But to me, that is part of differentiating, um, yeses and nos and and things like that.
[00:12:08] And calming. I used tapping to calm discomfort. And what does that do? It builds clarity. It builds resiliency while still keeping me. Hardily connected to those that are, are part of my circles. Yeah, and I think you talked about something really important is the self validation. Um, there’s, uh, there’s Bowen family, uh, systems is, they talk about differentiation a lot.
[00:12:34] And, uh, I’ve been reading a book, uh, by Dr. Sch and he talks a lot about validating ourselves. Like, do I feel like I did a good job? I asked, you know, I asked everybody what they wanted. I tried to provide it. I put love into it. I was careful. So I’m proud of what, what I created. Other people can be not, they might, this is terrible.
[00:12:54] I never, you’re horrible cook. And it can still be like, oh, I’m, and I’m sorry I’m exaggerating. I don’t think anyone would say that, but, um. Can we stay in our own center through the, the storm of other people’s discontent or unhappiness? And it’s a lot about finding our own integrity. Did I make this meal with integrity that I, you know, in accordance to my own integrity, did I do what I thought was right for it?
[00:13:22] And then if someone else is unhappy, we can still do some tapping and have our feelings about it, but it doesn’t mean we’re like swept away with their displeasure. Could you lead us into tapping on, uh, you know, can I be okay with other people’s discomfort? And because I think that that question, there are a number of questions, useful questions that are part of this skill.
[00:13:47] And, um, you know, even if the answer is no and we accept ourselves, um, that’s part of the skill even though I can be comfortable. So go ahead, trady chop, even though I’m not sure I can be comfortable with this. Even though I’m not sure I can be comfortable with this, aren’t I supposed to take care of their discomfort?
[00:14:12] Aren’t I supposed to take care of their discomfort? A bunch of us were taught that when we were kids. I was definitely taught that as a kid, brings tears to my eyes. A lot of people thought I was responsible for their feelings. A lot of people thought I was responsible for their feelings, and I’m starting to wonder if maybe they just weren’t very differentiated.
[00:14:35] I’m starting to wonder maybe they weren’t very differentiated and they were. I definitely wasn’t. And they certainly lacked resources and they certainly lacked resources. Top of the head. I have a lot more resources now. I have a lot more resources now. I brow, but that old training is pretty ingrained.
[00:14:58] But that old training, it’s pretty ingrained still. Okay? Still side of the eye, but I’m taking a step right now. I am taking a step right now under the eye. What if they can have their discomfort? What if they can have their discomfort under the nose? And I can still be okay and I can still be okay Jen. I can still look to see if I trust the situation.
[00:15:25] I can still look to see if I trust the situation collarbone. But I want to look with fresh eyes. I want to look with fresh eyes. My eyes, yeah, under the, I’m not children’s eyes and definitely not children’s eyes. Top of the head. What if they can be discomfort? Discomforted? What if they can be discomforted?
[00:15:47] And I can still be okay and I can still be okay. Can I just take a breath and see where you are at that your answer, you know, there’s no right or wrong answer. And different people at different times may bring up different things. It’s, for me, it’s very hard when my mother gets upset, it’s very hard just to go, eh, deal with it.
[00:16:07] 'cause she’s. You know, she is been somewhat emotionally fragile and she’s older and you know, I care about her. But there is like, oh, it, you know, like, if I can, if I can give myself the option or the choice or the, the pause to go, wow, this is hard. I’m noticing, I’m really feeling pulled in and I, maybe I can practice being with her and still keeping some, it is, we don’t have to be all or nothing.
[00:16:34] This is a gradual process where we build up muscles as we go. Um, but just acknowledging where do we feel stuck? Where do we feel compelled? That’s a really big step. And a couple of people said that, you know, it feels really true that I’m responsible for my adult kids’ discomfort. Well, I’m sure they’d love to make you feel that way.
[00:16:53] Well, actually no. My, I would say, you know, bless her, uh, my mom feels responsible for discomfort. I have in my life, so I don’t share discomfort that yeah, you don’t, but that re that also reduces the relationship because you’re not being as, you’re not sharing more. Right? So here, let’s take this as a skill thing.
[00:17:19] And I am not saying this is the way to apply it for each person, but I, this is, this is what I do with my, my adult kids. Um, and it’s what I, I seek to do across the arc of childhood to adulthood. So when my daughter was born, um, her discomfort, her capacity to self-soothe, she wasn’t born with that. None, no baby is.
[00:17:45] Um, if she was uncomfortable because her diaper was dirty, guess what wasn’t gonna change itself. And so, um, I’m the one who’s able to respond to that discomfort and make a difference for her. Okay, now she’s in this zone where she’s four and a half. She was not feeling well. A couple days ago. She fell asleep on the beanbag chair and she didn’t have a diaper on, and so she wet herself.
[00:18:18] Now we’ve had four and a half years of practice here I am response able and I am willing and I blend in something that I think applies to adult kids too. Curiosity. I wonder how much of this she’ll want me to help her with, if any. 'cause she can be very independent and, um, by allowing myself to, to stand there for a moment as she got clarity about like, okay, I need to get changed.
[00:19:01] Um. I was able to help her but not over help her. I was able to recognize, yeah, it’s uncomfortable and it’s not a big deal.
[00:19:22] The same thing, you know, with, with adult kids, it’s, what’s the posture? I believe that there’s a survival posture. Kids, babies do not survive unless mom really feels responsible. This distress is mine. My distress too. There’s an enmeshment that happens and it really does enhance survival. Um, I believe that there’s another posture that we can take, which is less enmeshed.
[00:19:54] And more differentiated, which is, oh my baby, my baby needs this, my baby’s hungry. I am willing to feed it. My baby’s uncomfortable. My baby’s sick, my baby. And if you start feeling that, well, my baby is looking for a new job, you know, my PhD doctor, daughter is, look, it doesn’t know where she’s gonna live, you know?
[00:20:17] And I’m like, oh, I really feel responsible for their, her discomfort. Oh, please, Rick. You know, okay, where do you wanna stand? How do you wanna feel? And this is where you take, okay. If I feel responsible for them as if they’re a o, you can over accentuate it. Am I trying to breastfeed my 3-year-old daughter?
[00:20:41] No. That would, no, I’m not trying to do that. But there’s a quality of that. Like, oh, I want to give to you. Um, if it feels like. Responsible is different than able to respond and able to respond is a different posture. Willing to respond, but not having to, right? If you’re a mom of a child that made it to adult, congratulations.
[00:21:10] There were lots and lots of moments when if you didn’t respond, if you were not willing to respond, they wouldn’t have made it and you did. And if they’re, if they’re doing pretty well, right? Like, you know, they’ve got real adult problems that they’re confronting, um, they’ve developed enough to have adult challenges, uh, congratulations.
[00:21:38] But we can still have a posture of, look, I’m willing, I’m willing. What am I willing to do? That’s the boundary. Am I willing to listen? Am I willing to hold space? Am I willing to strategize with them? Am I willing to be one of their resources still? You know? And if the answer to that is yes, it’s like, oh, okay, yeah.
[00:22:00] I’m not actually responsible for their discomfort. I’m not actually responsible for their discomfort eyebrow. But I don’t want to be indifferent. I don’t wanna be indifferent outta the eye. What kind of parent would I be if I was indifferent? What kind of parent would I be if I was indifferent into the eye?
[00:22:19] And I don’t wanna treat 'em like they’re two, and I don’t wanna treat them like they’re two. I am able to respond to a lot of things. I am able to respond to a lot of things. I am. I have some willingness. I have some willingness, and I have some curiosity. I have some curiosity. That’s a better posture for me.
[00:22:41] That’s a better posture for me. I can stand in that. I can stand in, that I can even be strong and experienced in that. I can seem to be strong in experience in that I have decades of experience doing that. I have decades of experience in doing that. Yeah. We don’t give up the experience of being responsible.
[00:23:03] Mm-hmm. When you shift to being able to respond, what you’re saying is, yeah, I, for a while it was driven by a different energy and now it’s driven by something else. Yeah. Um, and I, I wanna apologize. I, I, when I read adult children, I was reading it as, um, in, in the therapy world, that often means that that’s a dysfunctional child that’s kind of wanting their parents.
[00:23:28] So I apologize to my response on that. I misread what you intended. Um, one of the things that’s really helped me with this too is, and I’m not a parent, um, I have a very adored nieces, but, uh, not a parent. So I don’t have that experience, but I. One of the things that’s really helped me is the Buddhist concept of that.
[00:23:48] I really, I think I was brought up and I think many of us have, that we were supposed to be good enough and heal enough that we never suffered, that things just went smoothly. If we, we helped the kid enough or we helped come, you know, healed ourself enough, we wouldn’t suffer and that things would be going well.
[00:24:06] And if they’re not, there’s something wrong. Versus in Buddhism it’s like, no suffering like was a huge con concept. My, the person I was working with was like, connection doesn’t have to feel good to be connection. I was like, what? I thought connection was always this like lovely, like birds flying and you know, little hearts floating in the air and it’s like no connection can feel bad and still be connection.
[00:24:32] Life can still feel bad and that struggle can actually be part of what helps us. I don’t know. I, I kind of think of life as kind of grinds away the surface layers so you can find out who we truly are. And sometimes that needs to be a bit abrasive. And so when I see someone struggling, my first option is like, oh, I wanna save them from it, but I could actually be harming them in a way like a butterfly if you tried.
[00:24:58] If, if your caterpillar goes in a chrysalis and it comes out and it struggles, it has to struggle to get out of the chrysalis. And people that try to save them from that suffering cut open the chrysalis, it actually, the, the butterfly dies. 'cause it needs that struggle to get the fluid from its body out to its wings to make the wings enfold.
[00:25:20] So if I, if I can remember that, I don’t always stand in that position, but if I can say I don’t know what that struggle actually means for their life going forward. And if I can, when I can accept that, hey, life isn’t always pretty, then I don’t have to, I don’t feel the need to correct things so much. I get the out my head about the should be better, should be.
[00:25:42] They. If I, if I taught them enough and I’d help myself enough or healed enough, then I wouldn’t be having this difficulty. Versus life is sometimes not pretty, but we don’t know what the gift is in that discomfort. So if I can to like, if I can learn to tolerate my discomfort and their discomfort, there’s a lot less trying to manage and fix and a lot more like, Hey, can I be with you, with you?
[00:26:07] Can I offer you support as you struggle? Can I cheer that butterfly on? But I don’t have to try to crawl into the chrysalis with it to, you know, or pull it out. I can let it have its struggle. Just be with it, you know, I can protect it from a bird trying to eat it, for example, or like, you know, make sure that the sun isn’t shining too brightly on it if I want to, if that feels right for our relationship.
[00:26:30] But I don’t have to be the butterfly, I don’t have to crawl into the chrysalis with it. I don’t know if that makes sense. Maybe it just a silly It does. I no, I, I, well, it not silly to me because it reminds me that there is a value, an inherent value in being aware. Aware that not every connection, every moment, every mood is butterflies and sunshine.
[00:26:57] Sometimes it’s the goo that people are in inside the chrysalis. Yeah. Someone, and, and which I think leads us into this comment in the, the chat. Um, we can be aware that, that being responsible and kind of, you know, in that, in. Enmeshed feelings, um, isn’t something that our, our kids want, and it takes, it takes some discomfort and en energy and practice, which is why we call it a real skill to move beyond that.
[00:27:31] And here’s one of the discomforts that we’re going to feel. Someone said, my mom and my sister made me feel guilty if I didn’t adjust to their moods. And now I feel guilty if I don’t adjust to people’s moods. So in emotional freedom work, we look at, okay, if somebody’s in their primitive brain, they’re in survival mode and they’re angry about something, they want everyone connected to them to show how much they love them by responding with primitive anger responses.
[00:28:07] What do you wanna do? Who do you need to kill? What You know, what, what? They’re bad or evil like, whatever. It’s right. I will defend you. I will protect you. I will do this. They’re looking for connection that you’re bonded to them. Survival bonded is very different. And so we can look at it like, oh yeah, mom, sister, lot of survival, energy wasn’t really thriving emotionally, didn’t have a lot of that meditative grace.
[00:28:40] No, no, no. That was not it. Um, and so, yeah, and guilt is a way that we jab people that are, that are caring enough say, no, no, you do it my, you do the thing that you need to do in order for us to get through this together. And I know what that is because I’m trying to control you. Now, what, what does it look like with thriving?
[00:29:08] Well,
[00:29:12] if I walk into a circus and it’s a, it’s somebody’s up on the high wire and everyone’s looking up, right? And I feel like being a clown, I’m in a really clown around kind of mood, right? I’ve got my balloons, I’ve got everything else. Now, I may be early for my moment to clown around. I think for thriving, even in a very well, beautiful, entertaining, lovely death defy, uh, courage kind of circus.
[00:29:47] Reading the room and being aware of where our compatriots are. What’s, what’s playing out? Being present with what is in the room rather than where the, our imagination might have been about what it might be or you’d like to be. Right. Because the person that is so differentiated that they, they, they aren’t aware that it’s not their turn.
[00:30:13] Right. I don’t think that’s at least how, that’s not how smart or Bowen would describe differentiation. You don’t become so you don’t, it’s with differentiation is within a relationship and it’s being with reality versus this fsed thing where you’re very focused on the other person. It’s not like if you can become very differentiated, you come indifferent.
[00:30:34] I’ve not heard that. Okay. Describe I, I’ll go with that def definition. Um, so adjusting to other people’s moods in the space in a conscious, thriving way. May be, oh, there’s some tension here. How, how would I like to be in the presence of tension? My primitive brain may go, are we supposed to be tense here too?
[00:31:05] Yeah. Like, okay. And you know, that’s where the default survival kind of connection, um, doesn’t leave much space. So, uh, again, whether this is strictly differentiation or hey, there’s a monkey act going on and I want to do something a little different. Um, how do I want to adjust to what’s present here? How do I want to adjust with what’s present here?
[00:31:43] Eyebrow? Do I want to adjust? Do I want to adjust? Does it feel right for me to adjust? Does it feel right for me to adjust in a way that still supports my thriving in a way that still supports my thriving and theirs and theirs?
[00:32:08] And the guilt really isn’t guidance. The guilt is not guidance. I want my guidance. I want my guidance. I’m capable of adjusting. I’m capable of adjusting. Even adjusting by not adjusting. Even adjusting by not adjusting. Yes.
[00:32:29] Yeah. I think that’s, we’re not responsible for their suffering. We can accommodate if it feels right for us. And I think one of the things that when you’re talking about, I noticed is. I think most of us here tend to be other focused. We look at the other people to make sure they’re okay. Um, as like if someone needs something, they can also speak up.
[00:32:51] So I. To give an example, my mom was very overwhelmed when I was little, and I think she was very fused. I don’t think she really under, like, her brain kind of mapped me as part of her. So if I was noisy or, or cheerful when she was that depressed or overwhelmed is how dare you do that? Like, there was like this, this affronted like, ah, like, you know, you’re so selfish.
[00:33:16] What are you, you’re not considering me. But there wasn’t. So I didn’t really learn to look into myself to see what I wanted. I was constantly scanning what other people needed versus me. What does, what does Cathy want to do? Um, but my mom didn’t also say, Hey, you know, I’m having, I’m kind of down today.
[00:33:34] And she didn’t take responsibility for her feelings and that, Hey, I’m kind of down today. Could you please be a little quiet? Or play outside, there was an expectation that I would somehow intuit what her needs were and I should somehow know them and magically be able to accommodate them and maybe make her feel better.
[00:33:52] So I think there’s, there’s a responsibility on both people in the party, in, in any relationship for, you know, if I’m differentiated, it means I get to choose what I want, but I can also ask for what I want versus expecting the other person to do what I want. Like, Hey, I’d really like to have some time alone with you.
[00:34:09] Can we do that? Versus, he’s so selfish, he never spends time with me. Um, so there’s, there’s a responsibility on both parties side to speak up for what they need and also to, I think checking in with ourselves is huge on this. What do you know, even if we choose to accommodate the other person, being aware of what we initially wanted is a big step for what I’m, where I imagine a lot of people are here.
[00:34:37] If you’ve been tapping with us for a long time, you can see that this topic weaves in with so many of other aspects. And that’s, I think that’s always a good sign that we’re, we’re, we’re looking at the frame and, and every time we look at a relationship through a, a, a bit of a different frame, um,
[00:35:04] one of the things that I was, um, my massage therapy teacher noticed that if I was working on somebody who had a hurt hip, that my hip would start hurting. It’s not actually helpful for anything.
[00:35:25] And, um, you know, one of the teachers said, well, you can ask, is this mine or is it theirs? But that’s sort of a binary choice. Right. My, my, my somewhat more skillful advanced teacher, um, a delightful woman, um, Christine, uh, she said, Rick, you can check in with your body. How much of this is mine? How much of this is theirs?
[00:35:54] And it was like, oh, because guess what? My hips tend to be tight. And so if I’m working on someone else’s hips, there’s an interplay. If I differentiate between their body and my body, there’s still a we going on. In fact, it actually, I’m less distracted by my own discomfort or. I don’t have to disconnect like a lot of people do from their own body and what it’s processing, um, in order to focus on somebody else.
[00:36:34] So that question of how much of this is mine and how much of this is theirs usually can help us deepen into an awareness, a skillful awareness of if somebody else is frustrated, it’s probably gonna resonate with maybe something I read earlier or some other frustration I had that may still be a tension in my body.
[00:37:05] Um, and I noticed this with my daughter, like she will, disappointment is extremely hard for her. My inner child disappointment, very unskillful. No one really to help. Um. Adult Rick Disappointment is still my smallest emotional tank. Like disappointing things. I’ve got a tank about this big, you know, um, compassion and other things.
[00:37:35] Woo, but disappointment. That’s, that’s hard. Well, you know, going through life, just in every single day, there’s gonna be some disappointments. If my daughter throws herself on the ground and is wailing in disappointment and I check in like, how much of this is hers and how much of it is mine? Like, oh, there’s this profound disappointment I’m feeling here on this side of my body.
[00:38:07] And, you know, I’m really trying, I want, I want to be non disappointing as a parent, but no, we’re, we’re not going to do what she wants to do right now. It’s nighttime, we’re not. Going to go do that. Um, it helps me to have the lay of the land energetically,
[00:38:35] and that that changes the dance because if I’m not aware that I have a resonance that’s my own, then I am, I’m not tending to it. I’m just trying not to get overwhelmed by the disappointment, at her disappointment. And that’s where, you know, the disappointment that she feels is her monkey. I have my own, you know, elephant poop to clean up.
[00:39:06] Um, and we’re in it together. It’s our circus and I love her. Yeah, and it, it’s, this is challenging. I don’t think, I think empathy, and again, this is a lot from Buddhist studies. The empathy is something that’s innate in our being. Most people have, some people have tuned out from it because it’s not encouraged in our society so much.
[00:39:29] But I think everyone here has a pretty strong sense of empathy. We can tell when someone’s upset. Um, someone was sharing when they were, uh, working in dentist office, I guess office, I guess they were cleaning teeth, and they would feel the pain when they hurt somebody. Those are not bad things to have.
[00:39:46] It’s not a bad skill to have, but when we let it overwhelm our own inner signals and we, and we’re, and we start carrying it too much, one we start, we start ignoring ourselves, which is not balanced. It’s not, reality is about being with ourselves and with others, with what is, and not just ignoring the inner workings we have.
[00:40:07] We wanna be with everything that really is, but we also get burnt out when we carry too much of the, of what other people are carrying. So if my mom, um, gets a, this has happened a few times, she’s not used to dealing with bills and my stepdad can’t help her anymore. Um, but she’ll get a bill that she wasn’t expecting and she’ll call me at like Sunday morning at seven her time, which is for my time.
[00:40:31] Um, and she’s hysterical and it’d be very easy to get caught up in that hysteria because she’s so, you know, she’s so worried or so overwhelmed. And if I can stay grounded and I can notice that she’s in distress, but I don’t have to jump into it with her. I actually serve her more. Um, and I’m less likely to get burnt out helping her over time.
[00:40:54] And I can like, oh no, this is paid on autopay. We have everything on autopay. You’re just, they’re sending you a paper copy. Why are they sending me a paper copy when I’ve already paid it? They do that just for records. It’s okay. Um, and if it just, it’s a, a matter of, it’s not a matter of tuning out empathy.
[00:41:13] It’s a, it’s a matter of not letting it sweep away our own sense of who we are and our own energy. And it’s also not letting it, I think that for some of us, for security and safety, for surviving our childhood, we had to turn up the volume on the empathy really high so we get any variation really quickly.
[00:41:33] It’s okay to turn it down now, but a lot of us don’t know that. And I Can we do some tapping on that? Mm-hmm. Um. And I just wanted to say that as part of the massage thing that I was doing, sometimes the answer is zero. Um, like I might feel a resonance or a pain, and I still get this in tapping sessions.
[00:41:54] I’ll feel things in my body that really aren’t, that they’re, they’re not mine. But that proves to be useful because it gives me some information, not a hundred percent accurate, but where to put my energetic focus with the other person. Um, I’ll of, I’ll often ask, you know, where is the un the discomfort?
[00:42:16] And I become aware of where it is before they answer it. And that is, um, that’s using our connection in a useful way without it causing us distress and being aware that the same skill that had us. Over identifying can have us be aware of things that are going on with people that we care about without it causing us distress.
[00:42:44] Mm-hmm. Um, so you wanted to do a tapping? Yeah, I wanted do tapping and I saw some other questions, but let’s, let’s just start here. 'cause I think a lot of us just, this was a survival mechanism and it was really smart. So if you can just take a nice deep breath and know that this could be a little tender.
[00:43:03] It’s okay. Karate chop. Even though I had to turn up the EM empathy volume really high, even though I had to turn up the empathy volume super high, really high when I was a kid, when I was a kid, people were low resourced, people were so low resourced and I had to patch the boat before it sunk.
[00:43:28] And I had to patch the boat before it sunk. So I was listening for every drip and every leak all the time. So I was listening for every drip and every leak all the time. And if a wave was coming or some wind, oh, dear Lord. And if a wave was coming or some wind, oh, dear Lord, survival. Yeah. It was all about survival.
[00:43:51] It was all about survival. Top of the head. I’m much safer now. I’m much safer now. I bro, I’m standing on dry land. I’m standing on dry land side of the eye. My subconscious forgets this. Sometimes my subconscious forgets this some, sometimes under the eye. And I wanna appreciate myself for being so clever when I was little.
[00:44:17] I don’t wanna appreciate myself for being so clever when I was little. I. Under the nose, but I don’t have to have that volume turned up so high anymore, but I don’t have to have the volume turned up so high anymore. Jen. It makes life not very pleasant. It makes life not very pleasant. H bone, all that screeching and crackling in the background all the time, that’s screeching and crackling in the background all the time.
[00:44:44] And the, um, there’s not much room for my feelings or emotions. There are not as much feelings for my, there’s not as much room for my feelings and emotions. I’d like to give it a try, just listening to myself. I like to give it a try. Listening to myself and turning the empathy knob down and turning the empathy knob down.
[00:45:07] Just take a breath and notice that we do actually, because we had that skill when we were young. It’s there if we need to turn it back up. If we’re in a dangerous situation or a situation, we really need to tune it in. We can, we can turn it right back up, but we don’t have to have it pinned up at 11 all the time.
[00:45:25] We can turn it down to like one or two. And there’s times when, um, someone shared about being around difficult people. Maybe we turn it just almost off. I do think some people have learned to get their needs met by kind of broadcasting their distress in a very powerful way. Um, it’s worked for them to get others to jump and to save them.
[00:45:48] Um, and I don’t know that they mean it, they consciously did it in a bad way or malicious way, but it’s very, for empathetic people, it’s like, dear Lord, this is a lot. Um. One of the things that Rick helped me with when I first was working with him, my empathy just got really turned on with some of the work we were doing.
[00:46:05] And I was just, I, I still remember driving to work one day and I drove past the bus stop and someone was sad there and I was crying hysterically driving to work. It was like I could feel things houses away and just doing some tapping on, please let me notice what’s useful for me to notice. Like, Hey, universe, please draw my attention to what I need to pay attention to, what’s mine to help with, but otherwise I don’t need to hear it.
[00:46:30] And it was a little scary at first to feel like I wasn’t monitoring everything, but it’s been much more peaceful since I’ve like, Hey, universe don’t need to listen to everybody’s distress. It’s not mine, tofi, it’s not mine to fix. It’s not my monkey. It’s not even my circuit. It’s like houses away. So. Hmm.
[00:46:52] So someone said, you know, there’s. How do we disconnect from other people’s energy? How do we protect ourselves before it happens? Um, and then specifically there’s a person on a committee and I don’t even like to go 'cause I know, uh, their actions will trigger me. Okay.
[00:47:19] I don’t know how much of this fits in with differentiation, but through the frame of that, this is what I look at. Is it my circus? Do you know? They’re circuses that’ll come to through town. I don’t go to them. They’re not necessarily my circus. Okay. And they’re then they’re specific. If I was in a community and there’s a person who, uh, is on a committee, my first question is, look, do I have to be there?
[00:47:46] Is this life or death for me? If it is not life or death for me, I start with, I don’t actually have to go. It is not life or death, and I don’t, I choose to not have a survival reaction to this person or this situation. We start with life or death. Why? Because if I, a part of me is like, well, I know it’s not, not life or death, but start there, firm it up.
[00:48:12] Okay. Because that’s saying, look, I’m differentiating between survival situations and what would be thriving and good for me. The have to, out of the, the equation, getting the have to tap, tap. I don’t have to go. I don’t have to go. Um, other people want me to go, I wanna go. It’s sort of my circus. Um, but I don’t have to go, I don’t actually have to go.
[00:48:41] Yeah. Uh, this, if, if this was my last week on earth, I’m not going to that committee.
[00:48:50] Yeah, no, not the way I’ll spend it. And, and which raises the question, and this is where I’ll pause with myself. What makes this matter to me?
[00:49:04] Well, maybe the committee does good work that I, I want to be a part of in some way. This idea of, well, she’s the monkey, but she’s somebody else’s monkey. I don’t need to, if I, I can, I can clap, I can boo, I can give her a raspberry. Um, I can just sit there, chill. Ah, but she triggers me. She triggers me by what, uh, she triggers me.
[00:49:38] And a trigger is a survival reaction. And this is not about survival. Hey, primitive brain. Hey, primitive brain. That monkey throws her poo, that monkey throws her poo all over the place. So distasteful. It’s so distasteful, huh? I want to wear my energetic rain, slicker, poop, slicker. I want wear my energetic and just be like, yeah, I’ll take a shower after this.
[00:50:10] I’ll take a shower after this. It’s okay. It’s okay. I own my triggers and I am, uh, in the process of not giving her access to them. They’re not hers. I own my triggers, and I’m in the process of not giving her access to them because this is not about survival. This is not about survival. Well, if it’s not about survival, where is it?
[00:50:35] Like, oh, it’s monkey shit. Okay. Yeah. I, I’ve never actually. Like the monkey show, part of the circus I never have. And so it’s easy for me to go, not my monkey. I’m not even really all that invested in whether this at all. And we’re creating, um, using imagination, using some primal, um, things, um, putting in a dif different context.
[00:51:10] My perimeter brain goes, oh, circus. Yeah. 'cause the statement is not my circus, not my monkey. And if that is true, that’s a way of saying, look, that situation, that is not my circus. I’m not a ringleader, I’m not the poop scooper. I’m not the person that makes sure people get fed in that circus. I don’t rub the backs of the acrobats when they have a rough landing.
[00:51:34] It’s not my circus. This is my circus. I put my qi there, I put my life force there. And if it’s not about survival. I want to, oh, she triggers my, this reminds, she reminds me of that. They, he, the way he speaks like that just makes me want to puke. Okay. Yeah. I’m having a primitive reaction of, of that. And you know what, uh, that’s his, that’s his burden.
[00:52:04] That’s his burden. And, and even just creating, there’s another concept called right distance, right depth. If you search for that on thriving Now center, um, you can find it. And the, the idea there is that if it is my circus, but it’s not my monkey, um,
[00:52:27] then how do I want to orient my energy and creating some more distance, like, yeah, they’re part of the, the ax, but it’s not, it’s not in my act. If it’s in my act and I have responsibility, that’s different. Then directly. There’s a, there’s a whole nother skillset in directly, um, maintaining a space, using your authority, your role to, to have a healthy boundary that’s communicated.
[00:53:02] No, we don’t do that here. That’s not the space that we’re, that’s not the act. That’s not in the act here. Um, but that’s different from this differentiation. Right. Cathy? Yeah. Yeah. And well, but some people I think do pull at us. They may have, they may be intentionally or unconsciously pulling. They may remind us of a parent or someone that we really were bonded tightly with.
[00:53:27] Um, so we don’t have as much muscle to like kind of go, no. Um, I love Donna Eden zip Up methods. She has a number of different energy protective things you can do. They’re on YouTube, um, so you can look those up. But I also, one, I don’t have to, if I choose to go someplace, I don’t have to stay the whole time.
[00:53:45] I give myself permission to leave and I imagine that I’m going for a workout. I’m going to, I’m gonna, that person really is triggering me. I’m going to be present with myself around them and notice myself and notice like, huh I, oh, I have this thought that I have to take care of them, or they’re gonna be violent, or what you like, whatever it is that comes up for me, that they might hurt themselves or they might, you know, usually we’re hooked on something because there’s a underlying belief about something’s gonna happen.
[00:54:14] I have to do this to be a good person, whatever it is. So, if I can, I just kind of imagine I’m a teabag. I’m dipping myself into the situation and seeing what comes up. 'cause then once it’s conscious, I can do some tapping. I have a lot more leverage. As long as it’s unconscious. I’m just being reactive. I don’t have any way to steer.
[00:54:33] So I try to, you know, give myself, I’m gonna work out for five minutes with this person. I’m just gonna be, try to be present with myself around them and notice. And, um, if that’s useful. And you can also say, I just don’t want that. I choose not to. That’s okay too. Um, someone asked, uh, I found that if you do not have at least a itsy bitty bit of yours, I, I don’t pick it up.
[00:54:58] So every time someone else’s stuff comes in, I have some kind of Velcro to attach it to me. Is this a general truth or just what has been true for me so far? Um, I think people’s energy fields are oriented a bit differently. Um, and they evolve too. Uh, for example, to touch someone and to enter into someone’s energy field, emotional energy field, their awareness.
[00:55:28] If someone reveals, if someone drops in a session to a place of depth and intimacy into me, see. Okay. I’m willing to show you more of me and reveal more of me to you and with each other. Um, in the process of developing that skill, of holding that space and being in that place, there are sensors within our energy field that that information comes in on.
[00:56:04] Many times we’re not, we’re not used to someone else’s energy coming into that channel. Um,
[00:56:22] so
[00:56:29] differentiation. That question of what am I sensing? I’m sensing this flow from them. How much of this is, is mine? I ask when there’s a pain, when there’s a distress, if it’s information and rich, like if I’m receiving the energy of a deep, rich grieving, but I don’t find it distressing, I will feel the grief.
[00:57:01] But it’s not like it’s vel crowing on a part of me that’s unaddressed and yet still felt the same way that when somebody describes, um, a painting that they did, and I don’t have an experience of painting that way, but I’ve painted with energy. I can have an experience of their story taking my energy on a trip of.
[00:57:29] Expression. And I feel it, and it, it’s not a distress. Now, if I, if I feel a pain and I, and I find myself like backing off or needing to fix or control, um, that would be a signal. Oh, there’s something here for both of us. Um, that’s, that’s in the edge of distress or attention to be unwound. Um. And I do think that just about the Velcro, um, I know it’s almost time for break, but I found this is my own personal experience and I’ve worked with other people.
[00:58:10] Um, when I had a lot of trauma that was unresolved and attachment wounds that were unresolved, I tended to feel like I had to grab onto any connection that I could find. So I kind of was Velcro to myself and other people might have been contributing too. But, um, I wanted that deeply and I wanted that connection.
[00:58:28] And as I’ve healed more traumas and gotten more attached to myself mm-hmm. And feeling more safe with other people, I’m much more selective. And I don’t feel like I just suck in anything that’s around. So it’s not putting, it’s not trying to shame or put anything down, but if you notice a Velcro feeling, it might be like, oh, could I attach to myself or could I like find people that are a little more, you know, look for some more people that in my life that can help me feel more connected and fulfilled.
[00:58:54] So I don’t feel like that I need to suck that in something to try on, a thought to try on. I don’t know if it’s right for you or not. Mm-hmm. Thank you. We’re gonna take a seven minute break here and uh, I’ll pause the recording. If you’re, uh, with us on the replay, we invite you to take a break here too. Um, and we’ll be back in seven minutes.
[00:59:14] If there’s anything you want to, if you’re here live and there’s something you want to share in the chat for us to address in the, the last segment, um, we’ll go till half past and we’ll do that. All right. See you soon back. Welcome back. Hmm.
[00:59:38] I did have a thought about, you were talking about how differentiation can, um, it, it differentiation is in, in form of relationships. It’s not about cutting yourself off from feelings, but it can involve moving back and forth in terms of how close or far away you are. It just means you’re not doing it in reaction to the other person.
[00:59:57] You’re doing it out of your own choice and needs. But I think that sometimes if you’re in a relationship where differentiation starts happening, it can feel like indifference sometimes because that person isn’t like trying to fix everything and jump in with you. Um, it can be disorienting when someone’s first doing it because it’s like, oh, they’re just.
[01:00:19] They’re trusting me to handle this. They’re, they may offer to be there or may not offer to be there for me, but they’re, they’re letting me have my own stand on my own two feet about it. Um, so it can feel surprising, especially if you don’t tell people what’s going on. Like, Hey, I just wanna let you know I’m going to, I’m trying to listen more to what my needs are.
[01:00:37] I’ve been really focused always my entire life on other people’s needs, and I’m gonna try to focus some more on, you know, add my needs into the mix. And that may mean I’m gonna make different decisions than the past. Just kind of letting people know that can be helpful. Because otherwise people could be really surprised.
[01:00:53] 'cause like, oh, every time I called you were there, but now you’re saying that you want to go to sleep, like you’re tired. And that takes precedence over my upset. So like, I think it’s an adjustment for everybody involved, but it can be really powerful when I. I think there’s a, an illusion we create that the other person’s gonna make us all better when we’re kind of that enmeshed feeling.
[01:01:18] When we’re not differentiated. The truth is, I can’t control what someone else’s monkey is doing. I can offer to be there for them. I can support them, but there’s only so much I can do. They’re adult humans making their own choices. With children, it’s a little different because little children need more support, but for with an adult, it’s like, wow, you’re gonna make your own choices.
[01:01:40] You’re gonna do what you do. You’re gonna feel what you feel. You’re gonna think what you think, and I can only do so much. So, um, it, it can feel odd if you haven’t experienced it before, but it’s also, sorry it’s incense over the break and it’s not going.
[01:02:05] Um, so, yeah, um, I just wanted to, it can feel like di it can feel like distancing or indifference sometimes, but it’s not about tuning out from what they’re feeling. It’s about being present with what really is, but also giving space for our own needs. And sometimes that may mean, you know, I’m really tired.
[01:02:23] I need to get up early tomorrow. I, you know, I choose not to be here with you right now. It might be that I love you, but. I, you know, I hope that you, you deal with that. Write me a long email if you want, but I’m, I’m going to bed, so. Mm-hmm. We get to choose that. And that can be really hard and it can bring up a lot of grief for some people.
[01:02:42] Um, and a lot of, you know, on either side, like, oh, I’m supposed to be there. I should be there for them through everything. But I love them. And I don’t know how many times I would do that as a, well, I still do that sometimes, but being on the phone like. Painfully tired and having to get up in a couple hours, but trying to like push through to be there for them and not putting my own needs as part of the decision making process.
[01:03:06] My my own needs were never on the scale. So I think it’s really important to put our own needs on the scale and we decide what’s going on and to stay with compassion. Like, I love you. I hope you know, I’m, I’m willing to talk another time, or whatever it is that you are, but right now I need to, my body is insisting on sleep and I’m choosing to honor that rather than trying to hurt myself to take care of you.
[01:03:32] Does that? Yeah, it does. And I, I’m just aware that part of the reason we’re able to have this conversation at all and to develop this skill is that we’re taking the dynamics which.
[01:03:59] Were required for survival. They were useful for survival. They were so smart. If, um,
[01:04:11] if we relied on each other till death, do us part, and that could be this week, if we don’t, you know, take care of whatever distress are here. Um, we right now, those of us that are working to develop skills of emotional freedom, we want to be able to discern, is this really life or death right now? It could be presenting itself as life or death.
[01:04:47] My monkey won’t stay on my shoulder and everyone’s going to laugh at me and I’m gonna be so embarrassed. I’ll just wanna die. Okay, that’s. That’s not the same as a rabid monkey bit you, and now we have to get you treated. It’s not, and if I can differentiate even with those people that are dear, so dear to me, and, um, be in a place of discernment, then I’m not, I’m, I’m allowing the discomfort of not meeting them in survival energy and inviting them to co-regulate, they may resist it.
[01:05:33] You know, there’s, there’s a lot of resistance to co-regulation when someone is convinced that a survival approach to this getting you to see how desperately important this is. That I’m demanding your attention. I’m calling in a card. Um, you know, you must show up for me even though you’re tired. This over for 24 hours with you.
[01:05:57] How dare you, right? How dare you need 50 years ago? But I’m calling that, you know, card and, um, their demands.
[01:06:13] How do we want to be able to respond? And that to me is part of this skill. If I feel like I am bound to them, ball and chained to them linked in tribal, um, uh, cohesion, meaning you’re not allowed to leave, you’re not allowed to do anything different than what we, we, uh, tell you, whoever the, um, ones that have the power.
[01:06:43] Thriving is different. It doesn’t have obligation in it. Mm-hmm. It doesn’t have obligation. We can be just as responsive as an obligated person, but the energy would be very different. Yeah. We can even say, I hear you. I love you and uh, I want, I’m gonna get a good night’s sleep right now. Best I can. I invite you to as well, the best you can so that I can be with you tomorrow.
[01:07:12] How about we talk at 9:00 AM Yeah. And there’s the P, it’s the pause in the self check in. I still sometimes act the same with my mom as I would. If I was more enmeshed, but there’s like, what, what do I need? Okay, I really would like to stay in bed. It’s 4:00 AM But I also know that she sometimes reacts panicky and I have more cleanup later what feels right for me to do.
[01:07:39] And I may choose to get up and take and tend to her, or I might say, this is not important, this is not a crisis. I understand what the problem is. I can talk to you in four hours and give her a specific time. She doesn’t tolerate the anxiety and the unknown very long, and that’s really hard for, uh, several people have talked about elderly parent demands, but I, one thing I tried to do is like, she can’t differentiate between a, a bill coming in the mail that has already been paid, and it’s just a reminder that it’s been paid and someone hacking her account and they’re, yeah, they’re asking her to enter a bank account.
[01:08:15] She, she’s not able to do that. So. I try to take a moment to figure out what’s going on, but then I can, once I’m clear, I’m like, please don’t do anything else. I can talk to you in four hours. I will talk to you then you are okay. Try to offer some reassurance, but I’m not leaving myself out of it. I’m not throwing myself willy nilly on the grenade.
[01:08:36] Every time she asks, I’m trying to like, take a breath and be with myself. And just that breath, that pause that Rick talks about all the time, the, the, the, you know, just that pause and checking in with myself is really nourishing. My system’s like, okay, I’m just not ignoring myself. I’m not just trying to solve every problem.
[01:08:56] And it’s hard dealing with elderly parents or small children. It’s not, it’s not an easy thing. Um, and, and you know, someone’s demands, their needs are theirs. We each have our own life arc and. If I start from that differentiation, look, I have my life arc. It’s mine to tend to, my life arc is, you know, my mine.
[01:09:30] It’s a sacred mine. Now, I may get to a place in my life where I lose my capacity for grounded action, and maybe I start making demands of people around me.
[01:09:50] But I tell you now, and I tell my kids and I tell my partner, if I lose my shit that way, I want you to know that I stand for you not being obligated to respond to my demands. I would, I pray for compassion for, for, for parents who’ve lost that they think that they’re in charge. Bless you. Sometimes the fear also makes a great feeling.
[01:10:18] They’re so connect or, or that they’re in a, a terrible place. Um, okay. Differentiation says, and they have a life arc that I, that matters to me, but it’s not mine. It’s not actually mine. I’m a part of, they’re a part of my circus. They’re a part of my ecosystem. They have a sacred role that I, I’m choosing to continue to engage with them.
[01:10:49] If I am so, where’s my Yes, we can ask. Okay. So if someone said, what’s the follow up question? This demand this distress for this distress that’s being felt that now I’m, I’m feeling from my, my elderly mother, for example. Well, it’s hers because I actually am doing. I’m doing okay. Um, it’s hers. Okay. A question in the answer of thriving is, for this person I love and do care about.
[01:11:26] If I were not obligated to do anything, what, what might be a yes for me? What feel like some choices that are in character for me,
[01:11:43] I, I know people that are, are just so beautifully responsive and they have really a, just such a huge yes for people that it’s very much in character for them to say, yes, 99.999% of the time emotional freedom comes not in saying no, it’s being like, oh yeah, that’s a yes and that’s a yes and that’s a yes.
[01:12:08] I could say no if she asked me to do this right? Like. It’s not unbounded. If, if she asked to, you know, have both of my kidneys, no. So sorry. No, I have my own life arc. Sorry. Mom might share one That might be a yes. Do you see how what we’re doing is we’re differentiating through? Do I have a yes? Do I have a no?
[01:12:36] Um, do I have some choices that feel like they’re in character For me, it’s in character for me. If somebody’s struggling with something that, if to go within and ask, is this, is there something here that I’m called to do or be? No. Okay. I, I could, it’s in character for me to withdraw. If it’s in character to be generous.
[01:13:02] That’s also an option. The differentiation says, I am. I’m not so bound to them that them sinking kills me. I’m not so, uh, bound to them that their joy pauses me distress when I’m feeling sort of like,
[01:13:23] I wanna emphasize one thing you said. It’s in it’s differentiation, is about listening to who we are. Like, who am I and what do I actually want? Not what society says I want. Not what my parents said I want, not what I even think I should want. What is real for me? What do I want right now? So there’s no way to give you a, here’s how to differentiate X, Y, Z, A, B, C steps because it’s you.
[01:13:48] That would be the whole defeat, the whole point of differentiation. It’s like, what is my being? Like my life arc is, and all of us have all these shoulds that are floating around and society says we should have this much money retirement saved and like, we should be living in this kind of house, or, you know, working out at the gym so many times a week, all the shoulds.
[01:14:09] But can we get past all that noise and just be with our being? What does this being right now want from this moment? And give that weight. It doesn’t mean we have to just follow it helter skelter. There’s times when I really wanna do something and I’m like, yeah, but I’m still choosing to get on the phone with my mom and help her out.
[01:14:30] You know, I’d really love to be sleeping eater, eating bon bonds in the hot tub or something. But, you know, we make choices. But if we don’t ever give presence and awareness to that inner being and the wants, we’re never really becoming ourselves. Our life arc is then defined by other things. So I just wanna emphasize, we can’t tell you how to differentiate.
[01:14:51] We can give you ideas and concepts around it, but it’s really about what does my path look like? What would, what would I be right this moment if I could, if I had no shoulds or, you know. Other things and I can, then I decide what I wanna do. Do I follow this, this wild, this being inclination, or do I modify, do part of that?
[01:15:12] Or do I, you know, say, Nope, I’m just gonna, it’s integrity for me to, to follow through with my mom and help her out, or to tend to a dira and whatever it is. We, and again, it’s harder with small children or elderly people that are not as competent and we’re not a hundred percent responsible for them at all anyway.
[01:15:32] Rick is amazing father, but he cannot make Adir happy when she’s not happy. He’s, I watched him try,
[01:15:42] I am so willing to co-regulate and it’s very rarely her thing until child’s, until it’s crying very hard. Um, yeah. So, um. Rabid monkey is biting me. Someone’s sharing, am I going to die? Um, yeah. If someone’s triggered, if you’re being triggered by someone, I think it’s really useful to say, how important is this really?
[01:16:11] Is it, is this like, my mom just got a spectrum bill that she’d already paid the, I have it on autopay in her system, or is like someone actually hacking into her computer right now? Like, what is, what is the issue? Like, how severe is it? And then go, Hmm, I think we’ll be okay if I don’t jump on the phone right this moment.
[01:16:30] Or I should get on the phone right away. Mm-hmm. Uh, during the break, I was aware that, um, sometimes it, yes, it’s my circus and yes, it, that is my monkey. And just to, if I know that it’s mine. I am differentiating in a healthy way. I’m like my, I’m auditory sensitive. Um, uh, apparently male cicadas scream for sex at a hundred decibels every 17 years around here.
[01:17:19] Really the same, the same sound as like being within three feet of a chainsaw. So it’s, it’s great to go for a walk, you know? Now I, I’m aware that the auditory sensitivity is mine, and I’m aware that their lack of mating yet has caused great distress worthy of shrieking at the top of their. Whatever. Well, 17 years is a long time to go.
[01:17:49] I know. It is. And so there’s, I, but I really don’t have much compassion for them. I love that my daughter takes them and feeds them to the chickens. Everyone is like, you are in 17 years, baby. Um, but I own the, the monkey of my own auditory sensitivity. And I, I can ask for those that are in my space to adapt their sound level, but I don’t have control over it.
[01:18:23] And I’m not a terrible parent if I can’t force my kids to be quiet or to let their mother sleep or something like that. That there’s a differentiation that says there is a we space, we are part of a circus to use this metaphor. And we each had our own acts and our own gifts. Um, the clown is not the same as the acrobat, which is not the same as the ringleader if there is one.
[01:18:51] And, um, maybe we all put the tents up and down and maybe we all scoop the poop. Um, that’s a result of our, uh, are, are co-creating. But if I am, if I’m trying to control others, that can be a clue that I’m, I’m not differentiating, yeah, I’m not owning my own feeling controlled or trying to control others.
[01:19:18] There might be. It’s, it’s just a clue. And the skill kicks in as soon as you’re aware. Oh, I’m trying to control the world. I’m trying to control the cicadas rather than they’re getting even louder as I walk down this path. I’m gonna turn around, oh, tomorrow I’m gonna wear my noise canceling earbuds, um, while I go for the walk.
[01:19:42] Oh, they’re not as loud in the morning. I’m gonna go out in the, in the morning. Um,
[01:19:51] we hope that this is useful to you. Um, it’s a complex topic. Yeah. And especially with this recognition that those of us that want to be free and thriving, our skillset is evolving. And when you come together with us and you share as you have, um, this, this dance together that we’re trying to figure out, I believe that we come up with energies that other people pick up on.
[01:20:18] Mm-hmm. I am a little deeper and more solid in my differentiation, and I feel like this has been helpful, the preparation and this time together, and letting it integrate over the coming weeks as well. Um, it will help my kids understand this is what a differentiated dad who’s compassionate and empathetic and really wants me to be thriving to and himself to be thriving and all of us to be thriving.
[01:20:52] That’s what he more likely behaves energetically. Whether they can put their words on it or not is much less important to me than they pick up the energy of it. And that goes for our adult, um, our adult parents, uh, as well. When they feel that we really, we care and we’re differentiated, we can help them feel.
[01:21:18] Um, supported, and
[01:21:25] I believe that it sets a boundary that says, oh, the way to get my needs met is not to become more and more demanding. The way to get my needs met is not actually to, um, become more and more distressed and distressing. I’m noticing consciously or unconsciously, I believe that the unconscious is, oh, I, I hear that.
[01:21:51] Uh, instead of responding to the demand, I. You say, oh, I, I hear that you really are distressed about that right now. Is that true or is it very confusing for you right now? Is that true? Hmm. Okay. Well, would you like some help in a half hour to kind of work through that, or would you like some help in three hours?
[01:22:11] They may still stay distressed, but I know from energetic experience and reading and empathy, it does reach a part of their primitive brain that says the more powerful person, the more regulated, the stronger. The clearer is not freaked out about this. They’re not rejecting me, but they’re also not treating this like my fear is reality.
[01:22:41] Wow. Okay. Well, maybe I can start the unwinding of my terror or my demands a little bit. Some people are not going to respond in behavior. But energetically it changes the connection. It changes the, the we space that we have with them. So just one other thought to drop in as we’re partying. If you’re bored in a relationship, you probably are not.
[01:23:07] If you can increase differentiation, be more yourself and share more of what you want and need, you will likely bring sparks back to that relationship. Um, because if we, we tend to conform in our society, we’re encouraged to conform. If you’re feeling kind of bored or stale, it might be that, Hey, I need to start speaking up about what I want more.
[01:23:28] 'cause that starts bringing some spark and interest. We don’t always have to agree. And I really appreciate all of you diving in and chewing on a really challenging topic, but one that’s really vital to having really deep and powerful relationships. So it was very fun to engage with all of you. Thank you.
[01:23:47] Thank you, Cathy. Thank you all. And um, yeah, onwards. Bye. Bye everyone.
[01:23:54]
Replay is below
