Candid Conversations

 Real Skills Workshop - Community Event

RS 2023-07-16 Candid

Candid Conversations

Real Skills Workshop: Savvy Relating & Engaging Series

Hosts: Rick Wilkes (@Rick) and Cathy Vartuli (@Cathy)

Recorded Sun Jul 16 2023

:point_right: Replay is below

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Real Skills Workshop

Biting your tongue? That’s not emotional freedom… even if it is wise with some people some of the time…

Having candid conversations that serves both our own needs and desires… AND the relationships that matter… is a SKILL.

It is a skill that asks a lot of us.

Self-awareness. Empathy. Consent. Confidence.

  1. We need to be aware of what is going on both inside of us and outside us in the space we share with others.

  2. We benefit from empathy towards others who have needs and limits AND our own needs, too… holding an attitude that everyone matters while not diminishing what matters to us as “less important.”

  3. Just because we want/need to be candid doesn’t mean the other people are ready, willing, or able. How do we get consent?

  4. Some conversations are hard. Hard to say… and hard to see someone react with hurt feelings, defensiveness, anger, or pulling away. Growing in calm confidence that candid conversations are essential for thriving relationships gives us strength to be present.

Look, it’s “easier” to tell people to “JUST SPEAK YOUR TRUTH!” and let the chips fall where they may.

But just blurting out to an overwhelmed fellow human that you are angry, resentful, and demand they change NOW OR ELSE (even if that is the truth of your reactive feelings) is… not very savvy.

Why? Because if we want to stay connected and deepen together, loud noise and raging fire from our primitive brain is not going to do that. Emotional hitting hurts… and the bruises can last decades.

Does that mean we have to hold back? No. Trauma taught me to bite my tongue. Freeing it showed me that, yeah, there are people that can hear my rages and hurts and hold space for me to get clear about what really matters to me. RARELY is that the person I have intense feelings about.

It’s rather more skillful to get clear enough and grounded enough that I can feel more engaging rather than raging.

This practice is… ongoing. Useful. Helpful.

Sometimes even awe-inspiring how much positive change is possible when we’re candid with a focus on what matters to us.

Want to explore this together? Then…

:point_right: Replay is below

A Real Skills Workshop for: Savvy Relating and Engaging

If you’re new to tapping, we have a free EFT Tapping Course here.

We deeply appreciate (and it helps us keep going!) financial support for these events… If you find great value in them and can pay extra before or after the event… THANK YOU!

Appreciate You! Our inbox is open!

With love,

Rick & Cathy ~ ThrivingNow
Your Emotional Freedom Coaches
Schedule private sessions here

P.S. Adira says, “Let’s stick our bare feet in the mud, hold hands, and talk about what REALLY matters to us.”

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Candid Conversations - Session Replay

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We covered…

  • It takes courage to be candid and to be open to a conversation.
  • Start with the feelings you have about having the conversation, tap to help you quiet the intensity enough to hear and feel what the feelings are revealing to you about what matters… and options about how to approach the conversation.
  • Some conversations are difficult… and some people are difficult. Look for matches in values and style that bring you closer and make it easier to connect… and mismatches that you will want to adapt around or acknowledge create limits.
  • Humans have limits. Knowing your own helps to own YOUR truth and express your limits and needs while being kind and avoiding the anger, blame, and resentment aspects many of us grew up around as “normal” ways people “converse.”
  • Example approach on a candid conversation with an Ex- about financial support.
  • Past experiences can create beliefs that block us. But they also can provide guidance to keep it simpler and take smaller steps. Oversharing at the outset is rarely savvy.
  • Be open to different communication styles or switching to other ways… if speaking is hard for one/both/all of you to do with candid calm confidence, how about writing? Or do a video recording and share those back and forth? Candid conversations do not HAVE to look one way.
  • We’re developing new language and approaches here, together! We invite you to share your experiences, wisdom, and what you’re exploring next!

Resources Mentioned

  1. Free EFT Tapping Guide

  2. Thriving Now Emotional Freedom Circle

  3. Author Susan Campbell’s Getting Real

Click for Computer Generated Transcript

Candid Conversations

[00:00:00] Candid conversations, a real skills workshop,

[00:00:04] and this is part of our series on savvy, relating and engaging because wow. Being able to speak authentically about what’s going on for me with others is a big part of what I consider a thriving lifestyle. But it’s not always easy, and it’s sometimes not even possible.

[00:00:25] And so I’m delighted here to have someone where I’ve gotten the pleasure of practicing candid conversations with this human for, uh, a long time now. And it’s, it’s getting close to two decades now. We’re getting close. I almost said 20 years. It’s really a delight to get to co-create with, uh, Cathy Vartuli from Thriving Now in the Intimacy Dojo because, , When I think about having someone where, if it’s a conversation I need to have or want to have, that feels really dear and precious to me.

[00:01:01] , I’ve been able to practice with Cathy. I’ve been able to even like, have another human sharing in the space of what is going on inside of me before I brought it out to the person or people that are more deeply connected. And I know that Cathy has done an enormous amount of deep soul searching and soul wrenching sometimes yes, around radical honesty and, , sacred communication, , with some people that , are my mentors like Susan Campbell.

[00:01:33] So Cathy, thank you for being here, , co-creating with all of us and.

[00:01:39] Candid conversations. What does it take to have a candid conversation?

[00:01:43] I just, if I can just, I’d like to preface this for everyone. Um, one, we’re gonna try to make it easier for you than what Rick and I kind of were going out in the world and trying different things and there was a l there were some really soul wrenching conversations.

[00:01:57] That doesn’t mean you won’t have some challenges, but we’re like, wanna make it easier for you. We wanna like synthesize what we learned and make it simpler. And I just wanna emphasize how paradigm shifting this kind of conversation is. So most of us have been raised in society to be polite, um, to pretend to hide to.

[00:02:19] Um, obfuscate. I grew up in a family that everyone was super depleted and everyone was looking for a one up on everyone else. So if I was unhappy with someone or if I was hurt or feeling bad, I would blame that other person because if I could make them feel bad enough about how I felt, then they would be kind of kinder to me or they owed me one, so to speak.

[00:02:42] Um, and so what we’re talking about here was something, it took me a long time to figure it out. I kind of felt, I don’t know how many of you have heard the story of Helen Keller? Um, she had learned, she’d learned how to, she’d heard words until she was three. Then she had a, a really bad fever and she lost ability to speak and hear, um, or, uh, hear and uh, see.

[00:03:02] And she didn’t really speak. And her teacher kept spelling to her in her hand. And she, there, she had this aha moment where she realized the woman was spelling water. Like there was communication there. And I really felt like Helen Keller before. The spelling for a long time. I’d go to these classes and I’m like, you want me to say something that’s not about, like, it just was a paradigm shift, but as I started to get it, it’s, there is such beauty and connection in this and ability to communicate at a different level and build intimacy and to actually own our own, to feel more powerful if I’m blaming someone else for always making me feel a certain way or if I, if our conversation, which is often in our society, geared towards the other person to control them or make them different, if I shift it and start owning my own experiences.

[00:03:50] And making requests. It, it may sound trivial to say those words, but the actual shift in our lives is just dramatic and the amount of connection and love and realness that we can get with other people. For me, it’s just, I would never go back and when, in fact, I was visiting New York this a few a month ago, and I was just like, I was twitching because it was just like, oh my God, I moved so far from this.

[00:04:16] Um, and they just, they haven’t had the Helen Kellen moment yet, so, um, there was no way to communicate with them the way I wanted to. They haven’t learned this new language. So if you’re here, please just take a moment to take a nice deep breath and realize you’re giving yourself a gift. You are an explorer, a discoverer, looking for better ways, looking for new knowledge, and the fact that you’re here right now learning this, you’re, I just am very touched and honored to be surrounded with people like this.

[00:04:48] And, and Rick, thank you for putting this together and creating this group because it does, it’s much more powerful and easy to transform when we’re with a group and we see other people going through it with us. Mm-hmm. And what does it take to, to have that conversation in a savvy way? So part of what I’m wanting for myself and to layer in for us who want to be emotionally free and be thriving is a concept of, of savvy.

[00:05:22] Savvy to me, says there’s a skill there. There’s awareness, there are the things that, that, that seem to matter around emotional freedom, awareness, acceptance. Adapting, taking some action, allowing things to evolve. Um, but I, we talked earlier, what, what do you think is, is the actual experience of. Having a candid conversation.

[00:05:51] I think the first part for me is actually being with my feelings. And that’s something that a lot of people have a really hard time with. So if I’m just gonna pick an example, Rick’s almost never late. So I’m just picking it to kind of use it as an example, not cuz he’s actually doing this. If Rick was late and if that triggered me in some way, my old way is I start to feel anxious like he’s not there.

[00:06:17] I’m feeling anxious. There’s thoughts in my head about what could be going on. He doesn’t love me anymore, he’s, he’s tired of me. Um, he, something happened to him and he’s someone I love very much. So there could be a lot of those thoughts and those feelings of my body. And rather than breathing and just being with those, those feelings, I would boomerang them back on him and say, how dare you be late?

[00:06:39] It’s so disrespectful. Like, what? This is the third time in a month. What are you doing? Like, So rather than just being with the experience of, oh my God, he is three minutes late and I’m feeling, my heart is racing, my muscles feel tight, there’s all these thoughts in my head. Um, I would boomerang that back at him.

[00:06:59] I’d sit there and stew on it until the minute he shows up and then slap him really hard because I don’t wanna feel those feelings. So I think the biggest first step is to be able to take a breath and to tolerate the discomfort we’re feeling. And I think that’s a huge thing cuz our society kind of has taught us we should medicate or ch avoid any bad feelings.

[00:07:24] Um, and our survival brain after a while, starts thinking that any negative feeling means I’m being harmed. Mm. Versus I’m just uncomfortable. I have sensations in my system that I’d rather not feel, but all it is is my heart is beating faster and my muscles are tight, and my thoughts are racing. There’s nothing actually physically wrong with me.

[00:07:45] Does that make sense? It does. And it for people who want, like, I wanted the emotional savvy. Yeah. I could tell that there was something off in, um, my, my reaction, my, my knee jerk reaction when someone was late Yeah. Or was going to make me late. And, um, I remember tapping on it and, and coming to that awareness that, you know, I am really uncomfortable.

[00:08:20] What’s up with that? And so, I’m hearing that the first candid conversation or connection that we have is with ourselves, our own feelings. What’s actually happening in my body, my mind, um, what makes this uncomfortable? What, uh, does this remind me of? Which is a, a very powerful self-awareness. Mm-hmm. Um, and also what matters to me, um, like this person matters to me.

[00:08:53] And right now there’s this, suddenly this question mark that I’ve raised may not be true at all, but I’ve raised the question, are they okay? Are they safe because they’re not here? And they almost always are. So like, oh. And, um, you know, I raised this kind of alert, um, about uh hmm. Yeah, I can’t, I can’t go there.

[00:09:20] But, um, I can’t go there to protect the privacy of some people. Um, but I will say that I found myself in a situation where I was going to be late and I didn’t have consent to drop to, to arrive late. And what I was concerned about was how, how that other person might dysregulate. And so once I became aware of that feeling, I was like, oh, okay.

[00:09:50] And the candid conversation that could happen later was very different when I knew what I was feeling and kind of where the, at least I had some clues, maybe not proof of this is where it’s coming from. Um, but I believe that our, our body sensations have a lot of, uh, guidance in them if we’re willing to be with them for long enough that we can hear it.

[00:10:15] Yeah. So, and what, what, what’s next? And so be with our feelings. Yeah. And I think for some people, like this was, this was really challenging for me to get down to just acknowledging things. So I think that, I wanna talk about some of the blocks in a few minutes, but just kind of noticing, being with our feelings.

[00:10:34] And notice if, uh, blame or feelings of anger or resentment towards other people can be a signal that we’re not saying what’s true for us. It does not mean that we should never be angry or blame people. That’s not what I’m saying. And also, please hear that it’s fine to be angry and to blame people. But if I find that if I’m angry and blaming, there’s often a level of like, can I get quiet with what’s, what’s actually happening?

[00:11:00] So if I was angry at Rick for not being there, there might be fear underneath that or worry. There might also be just taking a breath. I’ve had an irritating day. Um, you know, and I’m just, I’m, we do tend to let out our feelings towards people we feel safe with. Um, or it could be, I need to set a boundary with this person, but just kind of being with the feelings and noticing, um, if I wanted to blame, maybe there’s actually a request that I haven’t made that, again, our society tends to think that people should know what we need.

[00:11:38] If they really loved us, if he really loved us, he would know that I needed him not to be late today. Um, but humans don’t actually work that way. So, um, is there a request that I haven’t actually made that I, that would really help me feel more empowered and help Rick win? Like, if I could tell, you know, if that’s true.

[00:11:58] And again, we don’t have a problem with this issue, so I’m using it just as a made up example. But if I told Rick, like, Hey, I noticed every time that you’re late, um, I make up stories that are worrying to me and I get really tense and I’m, I’m imagining maybe you don’t love me anymore or that something happened to you.

[00:12:18] Um, my request is, could you please be on time or text me if you’re gonna be late. Now, that’s still asking him to take care of my feelings, but that’s okay. Friends do that sometimes. Um, but just if he doesn’t know that, that’s important to me, he might be like, oh, Cathy knows I have a, a two and a half year old.

[00:12:36] Things are chaotic sometimes and she never says anything, but sometimes she snaps at me. But that, you know, there’s not a correlation necessarily. Um, so I think, what is the request you could make? What is it you could ask for? Mm-hmm. And we’re gonna get into that as well. Um, so you’re noticing with the feelings, if there’s any blame, anger, resentment, and that’s a clue.

[00:13:03] And. Is there something that’s not being said, or am I, am I suppressing myself? Am I own, like, you know, this has been a really hard day, week, year, and uh, my resources low, for example, to be able to be, um, patient or the like. So, um, these are this kind of, of engagement with ourselves to me, as part of the, um, preliminary.

[00:13:38] It doesn’t always happen. And I invite us to think about like, okay, when I’ve had a really honest conversation with somebody and I haven’t actually like tuned into myself in a deeper way, like Cathy and Rick are inviting, how’s it gone for me?

[00:14:01] I can point, I can point to like a hundred experiences pretty, I could definitely document a hundred experiences where, um, I had the feeling, I was aware that I was angry or, um, resentful or that this has to stop or something like that. And I have candidly communicated that to someone. Um, and it is almost never gone well.

[00:14:31] Um, almost never like, yeah, I, I’ve won, I’ve won the lo not the big lottery, but I’ve won money in the lottery more often than, um, so that, that says like, how probable is it gonna be? Um, now some people, all they do is make demands. All they do is cri you, cri, criticize, yell, blame, um, it’s their. Relating style, it’s their parenting style and things like that.

[00:15:01] Um, I, I’m a firm believer that from experience, that we can adapt even if that was the style we were taught and sometimes it squirts out, um, that we can continue to become more savvy with this. And I’m knowing what is really true for ourselves. I’m gonna add here, um, knowing our limits, um, and where, where we stand on, you know, the div diversity scale.

[00:15:42] Um, where’s our resilience and where isn’t it? What triggers us? If, if you’ve done emotional work for six months, you’ve got an idea of the landscape. You know, you’ve walked into the rocky fields, you’ve smelled the tar pit. You, you know, you kind of know places where it doesn’t work for you. Well, yes, and being aware of those limits, um, allows us to be savvy or ish.

[00:16:17] Um, did, did you have more on the, what does it take to be, have a candid conversation? Um, I just, I, I want, we’re gonna go into more of the blocks, but I just kind of wanted to give people just a little of insight of a little more insight in that, because I think it start percolating up. But we want you to help clear some of the things that might be in the way.

[00:16:41] So, um, Rick shared in one of the newsletters about how he would, he, he’s very odd, he’s sound sensitive. And Emerald, who’s very musical and, and loves to chatter, um, can just be like, it can be a lot sometimes, and. I love how Rick shared, Hey, I’m very sound sensitive and you, this much noise inside is a lot for me right now.

[00:17:04] So he’s owning it for himself and then he might make a request of emerald or set a boundary, but it’s, it’s, he’s sharing his own experience first to give people the perspective and the understanding of what’s happening versus just like, stop being so loud. Which is what a lot of parents, you know, they’re at the end of their rope.

[00:17:25] I tried that. Didn’t it was, it was ineffective. Ineffective, a gentle word. It created more loudness just of a different tone. Um, well, and I think people sometimes don’t understand like, How loud is okay, when is okay? Like there’s not a lot of context or understanding there. Right. And I, and I use that as an example because it has been the most profound example of me owning a limit.

[00:17:56] So as an auditory sensitive person, for example, the sound of sirens even in the distance are very loud to me. I’m a protector awareness of like sirens and things like that. So you can imagine someone running around while I’m trying to cook dinner. Um, making siren sounds would be triggering for me. So if you imagine me being triggered, what’s gonna come out?

[00:18:21] Fight flight, dominance, you know, that needs to stop. Get outta here, go outside. That’s how parenting sounds like when Rick is triggered. Now, um, when I looked at. Okay, so what is really going on? I use this Susan Campbell image of being on my side of the net. Well, the net doesn’t block much sound. Um, I’m like, I’m on my side of the net.

[00:18:49] There’s a sensitive person and I can’t always wear headphones. I can’t always wear earphones. I can’t always wear earplugs. And so I said, I, I started explaining. I said, Hey, for my brain, that sound is, is really loud, even if you’re making it as quiet as you can be. It’s just a particular kind of thing that catches my attention.

[00:19:13] So please, would you be willing to, um, to not do that inside? Not turn on the siren on the toy. Now he’s young. He didn’t get that right away. Yeah. But every time, and now after about two years of this, what’s really cool is that. I understand his limits, his neurodiversity, his other things, and he, when he hears that saying, Hey buddy, that sound I can’t take right now,

[00:19:49] he’s, he’ll say something like, oh, I’m sorry. Yeah. And you know, that’s very different. It’s cultivating, um, sharing a we space. And to me that that’s something I want to do. Now at the same time, I’m looking at like, oh, in this can candid conversation, there’s a recognition that he, he’s, he’s got so much chi like, wow.

[00:20:18] Um, and so I look at how do we navigate this and continue to have a candid conversation. Candid conversations are not typically a one-time deal, even when we make a request, even when there’s an agreement, um, especially. When we’re sharing spaces together, um, we’re gonna run into times when our self, our awareness of others is really low or, or their awareness of us is really low.

[00:20:47] And so, um, from my experience as a parent and someone who loves this human being with all of his enthusiasm, by staying within, communicating my limits rather than the knee jerk or the, the kind of primal reaction, this hurts me. It literally does. Um, at times, like really, if you’re auditory sensitive, you know exactly what I’m saying.

[00:21:18] If you don’t love the sound of fingernails on chalkboards, you probably have a clue what I’m saying. Um, and it can be a very innocuous sound. Um, it can just be when I’m in that kind of nerve nervous system state. Um, and what this has allowed is less reactivity like I know where to go. I know. Oh, I communicate where I am.

[00:21:44] I communicate where I am. That has become my reaction. I communicate where I am and sometimes we have a conversation, but at least the candid communication is, has been practiced through conversation. And I wanted to make that distinction. A candid communication is, this is where I am and this is what I need to have happen, or, or I’m gonna adapt in some other way.

[00:22:14] Um, it may lead to a conversation, but it is, it is real. It is. Present it is, um, to allow someone else to navigate the we space or their own life. Um, I don’t have the energy for that very candid communication that’s not leaving room for a conversation. Um, but if we pr we have conversations that have happened over our relationship as we’ve gone deeper and gotten closer, then we can have shortcuts.

[00:22:48] My partner has a shortcut. I don’t have energy for that right now. And she sometimes says, I don’t have, I don’t ever have energy for that. Like, that’s so clear to me, but I’ve had a candid conversation. What does that actually mean to you? If it matters to me, how would you like me to navigate it? Um, and so these are, this is the lifestyle of the candid communication and conversation that, um, we’re.

[00:23:20] Vulnerably revealing is, it’s not always perfect. It doesn’t always work. There are people that I don’t have candid conversations with and wouldn’t, but I might have, uh, candid communication around a very narrow subject. It takes courage to share who we are. That’s our really, our first point here in the workshop.

[00:23:40] It takes courage and awareness. It’s tender, it’s vulnerable. You do not have to offer your te tender underbelly to everyone. In fact, it’s not actually recommended. Um, no make a point like in the family I grew up with, because everyone was so depleted, it wasn’t safe to share things like that. So if I had shared with my father, for instance, when he was in a bad mood, if I said, Hey, I’m noticing that loud sounds are really disturbing, I, I think I’m pretty sensitive to them and they’re, they’re really jarring to my system.

[00:24:13] He would’ve known to use that against me. So the next time he was mad at me, he’d be especially loud, or he would berate me for being sensitive or needing special treatment. So if you’re noticing that there’s some resistance in your body when you’re thinking about sharing this, we’re really talking about going down the next level of realness and conversation.

[00:24:33] And many of us were probably brought up in a family where that wasn’t always the, like, showing your soft underbelly to people that might, you don’t know if they’re gonna pet you or kick you or you know they’re gonna kick you. That’s, you know, our brain is like, wait, what are you, why are you on this call?

[00:24:47] Shouldn’t we be on social media or like watching TV or something? Then don’t worry, we’re gonna do some tapping to help release some of that. Any blockage you have there. Mm-hmm. Um, so owning our own feelings, um, staying, staying on our side of the net. Um, Another aspect here is matches and mismatches. Yeah.

[00:25:12] And as I was saying, if you have a relationship that matters to you, um, you probably have an awareness of ways that your values match and your, your skills match up. You’re also probably aware, like Cathy has vulnerably shared that in her, you know, her birth family, there’s, there’s a mismatch, like it candid conversations from our vantage, from, from the way that we are learning them and exploring them.

[00:25:49] They’re like a different language. And if you can speak even a simple poem in another language, it doesn’t mean that somebody else is gonna gr that at all. They may even get angry or, uh, uh, dismissive, uh, Of the fact that you’re speaking this other language. Um, if that raises something for you emotionally, I’d love to hear about it in the chat.

[00:26:17] I think those are the types of things that act as blocks, because we tend the blocks that show up for, for a lot of humans first, or the ones that are real. Like, I actually am blocked from having that with my, my mother, my father, my sister, my brother, my narcissistic ex, my, you know, like my boss. My, uh, you’re just aware that they’re not the first candidates or maybe even ever candidates for the deepest, richest, most heart desired candid conversations that you want.

[00:26:53] Um, but they can, they’re so big, so loud sometimes that they carry over and make us feel like they’re no other possibilities, which isn’t accurate. Um, you may be really accurate about the mismatch, um, for people that matter in, in our world, having a, a way that, you know, this is, these are values that we share.

[00:27:22] Um, not even necessarily topics that we share that can be useful for candid conversations, but values that we share that helps us, ground us and prepare us energetically. Like this is not an adversary, that we share certain values, um, and mismatches. Um, I know, I know people that if you talk to them, they cannot hear you.

[00:27:50] They can nod. They’ve learned the social politeness of mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I’ll do that. Mm-hmm. They have no idea. They’re, it’s not actually registering anywhere inside them. In fact, One of the things that neurodiversity has brought forth are certain types of testing and things for, like, how does someone’s brain work?

[00:28:15] What do they, what do they keep track of and what do they not guess what, there are people that don’t actually register auditory information almost ever. Maybe free pizza, you know, they’ll, they’ll react to that. Um, but that’s an instantaneous, but being able to like land and yet they might be able to see itri, like visual learners can, some visual processors could see it in an email or a text message and actually receive it.

[00:28:52] And so mismatches can be psychologic, you know, psychosocial, the orientation that we have, they can be neurodiversity things, they can be, uh, limits. Um, that, you know, like, I love you and I know that, um, when you’re hangry is not the time for anything other than, um, something urgent or, you know, I so mismatches.

[00:29:25] Um, I like to, I like to talk about it. They, they prefer to read about it. Um, that can help the, the exploration here too. Yeah. There’s different learning styles or intake styles, but there’s also how stressful do they find it when you’re sharing something that’s raw or new or if we’re talking about having a paradigm shift and start sharing things at a different level, how are they most likely to let that in?

[00:29:53] How, how activated is their survival brain and what pathways are the most open to input? Mm-hmm. So I think, and, and some of that might be asking them, and some people are just not very aware. So it might be noticing, oh, every time I try to talk in person with this person, they lose their mind. But if I email them, we can have a conversation cuz they’ve had time to read it, digest it, think about it like, you know, just testing it out with small things can be a good way to, to see how things, how people can move forward.

[00:30:25] And also realizing that just because we think something’s an easy topic or a baby step, doesn’t mean it necessarily lands that way for that person. That we, it’s impossible to know where other people have sore spots and trauma. We can just, through care, taking baby steps and being aware we can do our best, but everyone has their own landmines hidden in different places and it’s impossible to guess all the time.

[00:30:49] Right? Yeah. Yeah. So savvy, um, uh, Accepts that reality or those realities, right? And, and as, as if, wow, we’re human. And there’s, this is the reality of human, human interaction. Um, I tap on that a lot and I’d love to do some tapping on that right now. Yeah. Um,

[00:31:20] so if you’re new to tapping, we have a free course. Go to Thriving We’re not gonna be teaching it today, but you can follow along. Um, we invite you to, if I can spell that would be even better. I’m just putting in the chat

[00:31:38] even though I wish it was different. Even though I wish it were different, I wish they were different. I wish they were different. Wish it was easier. I wish it were easier. I don’t necessarily want to have this conversation. Don’t really wanna have this conversation. Uh, I accept where I am. I accept where I am and how I feel watching Tyler Alexa, stop how I feel.

[00:32:14] Even though I have big feelings here, even though I have big feelings here. I wanna be savvy in communicating candidly. I wanna be savvy in communicating candidly, top of the head. This is a different language. This is a different language eyebrow. It’s not the one I grew up with. It’s not the one I grew up with side of the eye.

[00:32:37] It’s not the one at work. It’s not the one at work under the eye. They don’t speak this at the family reunion. They don’t speak this at the family reunion. I dunno, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this, Jen? Why am I suffering? Why am I suffering? It’s just the idea of being candid. Just the idea of being candid collarbone, cuz it matters to me, does matters to me under the arm.

[00:33:07] This matters to me. This matters to me.

[00:33:17] I’m letting it calm you. It’s like, look, this matters to me. It may not matter to everyone, but hey, we’re here as a group, here as a circle. Um, we’re part of a community. People that have at least raised their hand and say, you know, I wanna be thriving. And emotional freedom is part of that for me. Um, there are, there are at least millions of us out of 8 billion people, um, worldwide that want this.

[00:33:46] And so, uh, yeah. Um, what blocks if, if there’s anyone that has a block, as you even consider having, being a bit more candid in a conversation, what’s a belief? A belief. A limiting belief is a belief that says Uhuh. No. And it can feel very black, black and white. Like mm-hmm. No, that, that can never happen. If I do that, then they will dot, dot, dot.

[00:34:21] And you can also note if, if this topic is, if you feel a little distracted or feel heavy, it could be your, our, our survival brain will work on our subconscious often and try to distract us to protect us. It’s like, oh no, that’s too scary. Let’s, let’s be depressed. Or This is a boring topic. Or, you know, Cathy, one of her orchids is dying, therefore I should leave.

[00:34:44] We make up stories about this when actually we might be feeling some feelings about like, oh, this is pretty intense. Do you wanna do a tap tapping on the, they still won’t understand me, so just take a nice deep, deep breath. This is a big one. So our survival brain wants to be understood. It knows that if we’re not understood, we’re not gonna get our needs met necessarily.

[00:35:06] People won’t understand what we’re doing. If they don’t understand us, they might judge us. There’s all this, there’s a lot wrapped up into this phrase. Um, They still won’t, they still won’t hear me, so just take a breath and just notice how your body feels when you think about, they still won’t understand me,

[00:35:27] ratty chop, even though all this stuff is coming up. Even though all this stuff is coming up. When I think about them not understanding me, but I think about them not understanding me, what I, it makes me feel awful, and it makes me feel awful. I’ve worked so hard to be understood. I’ve worked so hard to be understood.

[00:35:51] Why should I do this new thing that they might not understand? Why should I do this new thing? That part of me is convinced. They’ll never understand. It feels hopeless. It feels hopeless with them, top of the head. They may not understand me, they may not understand me. Eyebrow, but I, it’s hard to swallow, but I might understand me, but I might understand me side of the eye.

[00:36:21] And this is a way of taking some of my power back. And this is definitely a way of taking some of my power back under the eye when I blame other people. When I blame other people under the nose, part of me thinks they have all the power. Part of me thinks they have all the power. Shannon, if they don’t listen and change, if they don’t listen and change, holler, but I’m stuck.

[00:36:50] I’m stuck. Huh? Under there. Versus if I understand what I need first, if I understand what I need first, but then I might find some people that are very willing to meet that. I might find some people that are very willing to meet that. And I might be willing to meet that and I might be willing to meet that.

[00:37:13] Just take a breath. Good one. Good. And this is, this is, this can be big, especially if there’s a lot of trauma and, um, attachment issues with your family of origin or people that you’re thinking about as we go through this. Um, it can feel really intense when we’re like, oh, I need to get them to understand me.

[00:37:33] That may be a childhood belief that we get locked in place. Children do know if they can’t get their parent to understand their basic needs, they may not survive. It’s really, that’s, that’s a fundamental understanding. And also that if their parent doesn’t understand where they’re coming from, there’s not the same attachment.

[00:37:51] Or care, again, could be life-threatening to a small child. People here, I haven’t seen anyone under the age of three. Most of us can get most of our needs met on our own, but there’s still that longing, that pull to try to get people to understand us and and be there for us, which is very human and totally okay.

[00:38:11] Yeah, just realize that you’re not necessarily locked in on one person anymore, or two people. There’s choices side of hand. Even though it’s still important that they understand me, even though it’s still important that they understand me. That’s not in my control. That’s not under my control. Even though a part of me thinks I will never be heard, even though part of me thinks I will never be heard.

[00:38:37] If I speak it, I’m hearing it. If I speak it, I am hearing it, and that matters to me and that matters to me. Top of the head. I do want to be heard. I do wanna be heard eyebrow. I do wanna be understood. I do wanna be understood. I wanna be I, and that includes me. And that includes me. I wanna understand me. I wanna understand me.

[00:39:01] I want to be heard by me. I want to be heard by me. And some people do want to hear me, and some people do want to hear me. Some people probably will want to understand me. Some people probably will want to understand me. The ones I want to get close to will want to understand me. The ones I wanna get close to will want to understand me.

[00:39:25] Oh, and some people can’t just gr things about me, and some people just can’t. GR things about me doesn’t even mean they don’t love me. Doesn’t even mean they don’t love me. Hmm. If you can’t, it helps. It helps me to say that. Out loud. So if we’re having a candid conversation, um, when you hear, when you hear yourself say something and you’re on your side, you’re with your own feelings, you’re with what’s important to you.

[00:40:01] That is very, very different than what, if you look at the energetics of a lot of the dynamics where people do not feel understood and you looked at it from an, like, these are people you don’t know. You’re just saying, Hey, what’s happening here? You’re not on anybody’s side. Nobody’s closer to you or further away.

[00:40:26] A lot of times when people have that feeling that, um, they’re not being understood, there’s a need and a specific way that they want to get that need met. And if the person understood, then they would deliver that. That’s quite honestly, very ad alike. I love my daughter if she wants to, if she wants the iPad.

[00:40:55] Um, if she got to use for the, for really the, one of the first times on a flight to Alaska, um, and I say, no, sweetheart. Her reaction is so similar to mine when I was trying to get something from a mate or a friend or something like that, and they didn’t want to give me what I wanted. It wasn’t that they didn’t understand me or didn’t, didn’t love me.

[00:41:23] And so that goes back to being with the feelings. Um, if it’s a block, they won’t understand me being with that feeling, tapping on it, um, like, okay, what if they don’t understand me? What does that mean? Well, and. In a candid conversation, if we’re clear about understanding like what our request is, let’s just use that as an example.

[00:41:53] Cuz understand me is such a, like, I, I love some people that I just study them. I just delight in knowing them deeper and deeper and deeper. Um, uh, but I would never, I, I’m way too aware that I, as, as much as I love and, and know Cathy, we’ve co-created so many hours together. We talk every day. Um, I would not say that I understand the fullness of, of, of this other human being.

[00:42:23] So there’s a quality of humility that I bring that can be helpful. But if I have a request, like if, if I say, Hey, um, I would, I would really like the freedom to be able to set a time with you, um, and to have a, a flux there. Like, I might arrive a few minutes early, I might arrive up to five minutes late, but what are you able to like, and not just like, think about it, consider like, Hey, our arrival time includes traffic, it includes tending to other things that are off grid or off outside of our connection.

[00:43:06] And that I’ll communicate to you if I’m gonna be more than five minutes late and you won’t, and, and it, and that we can, my request is that you trust the love in our relationship and how important it is for both of us to meet up at specific times. Um, now that. The other person may understand exactly what I’m saying, and they may have to say, no, actually, if you’re late, I’m going to be stressed right now.

[00:43:33] I’m, I’m willing to work on it in myself. Um, I’m willing to take what you’re offering as a frame of reference, but right now, my, my primitive brain doesn’t let me not worry about you if you’re a minute late. Well, that gave me two things. One, I got a chance to communicate and be clear about what my request is, and in the candidness of her knowing also like how it feels, guess what?

[00:44:01] I’m now more aware of where she is and what her her limits are. And it could be that I start putting time with Cathy in my calendar five minutes early. Why? Well, if that’s my target, I’m more li I’m giving myself that five minutes, right? Without being late. So these are, these are ways, candid conversations are not going to always get us what we want, but they give us information about these other human beings that allow us to adapt and navigate our world in ways that are, um, more true for us.

[00:44:44] Could be that my reality is, I, you know, my life is such that I can’t, I can’t do that. So maybe we don’t schedule time. We say, Hey, are you available? Only when we’re actually available in that moment, we, we switch to something else. Um, Yeah, there’s less, there’s, we start having real options with each other rather than whoever’s the most upset, winning, or the person that’s more force forceful or the person who hasn’t screwed up.

[00:45:13] Recently, we start having real communication that’s peer related versus trying to one up or one down each other all the time. Cuz that happens a lot. Like if we’re trying, if we’re not sharing, it’s like, who’s the most. Distressed or the most forceful or the most willing to walk away, there’s a lot of power dynamics in that versus like, this is what I need to be, right?

[00:45:35] This is what I need right now. This is what you need right now. Where do we match up? Where is there a good Venn diagram for us to, to engage? So this changes the power dynamics and lets us be a lot more real with each other in ways I think is very important. Mm-hmm. I’d love to hear, um, well, if you wanna raise your hand, that’s great, but also I’d love to, if people either way, um, wanna chat, like, what is a difficult, what’s a topic that you’ve been wanting to share or talk about and what do you notice when you think about sharing it with that person?

[00:46:06] Like what’s coming up in your body and your thoughts. Um, if you’re willing to share, we can weave that into some tapping to help you clear that. Um, and the. I, I used to dread having conversations with people cuz they were all power struggles. There was lots of guilt and blaming, looking for fault so I could get, try to get control, vice versa.

[00:46:27] Um, and it felt like it was a constant jockeying for position versus just being with someone and being with what is. And I have found that I’ve gotten much quieter and calmer, more grounded, more present with people. And, um, I just, I feel like I’m a different person in many ways because I’ve tried to, to be more real about this and noticed what, what’s, what’s going on with me and sharing it in a vulnerable way.

[00:46:54] And I. Having come from a, a background where that was really challenging. I know that just even the thought of it can be confusing and even I dean the thoughts be beneath it versus for when I first started doing this work, I’d be like, I’m mad that you’re late. Okay. What’s beneath that? He’s bad. That he’s late.

[00:47:13] And again, Rick’s never late, so we’re not even, it’s not real, but there’d be like a lot of, um, churning and it was hard for me to get to. Oh, I’m worried sometimes our top level emotion is a masking emotion. We might be, we might come across as very fearful when we’re really angry or we might be angry when we’re, we’re tapping on that.

[00:47:36] Yeah. So let’s just take a nice deep breath. I noticed then we’ll take our seven minute break so people can have a chance to process, add to the chat or, yeah, go ahead. Karate chat. Even though I’m having a lot of turmoil about this, Even though I’m having a lot of turmoil about this, it’s sometimes hard to identify what’s actually going on, and it’s sometimes hard to identify exactly what’s going on.

[00:48:03] There might be some other emotions under my top level emotion. There might be some other emotions under my top level emotion. What if there’s some fear in my anger? What if there’s some fear and hurt in my anger? What if there’s anger in my hurt? What if there’s anger in my hurt? What if there’s joy in something too?

[00:48:25] What if there’s joy in something too top of the head? Tangled emotions are hard to interpret. Tangled emotions are hard to interpret. Eyebrow. What if I can just breathe for a few moments? What if I can breathe for a few moments side of the eye? What if I can just be with what I’m feeling? What if I can just be with what I’m feeling?

[00:48:49] Under the eye, it’s hard to tolerate these feelings. Sometimes it’s hard to tolerate these feelings sometimes under the nose, and if I can just breathe with them and if I could just breathe with them and I often can get more clarity, I can often get more clarity. Hollow bone, I can sink below the chaos on the surface.

[00:49:13] I can sink below the chaos on the surface, under the arm, and actually understand what’s happening and actually understand what’s happening. I’m open to that clarity. I am really open to that clarity. Just take a breath

[00:49:32] and notice that if you’re feeling, one of the things I noticed for myself, and I imagine a lot of other people have this too, is if I’m feeling agitated, I wanna move away from the agitation really quickly. Um, so, and sinking beneath means being with the agitation for a moment and breathing into that. So like, even being with those topmost feelings for a moment and breathing sometimes allows us to sink into it.

[00:49:55] And when we start tolerating these feelings at first, our brain, our survival brain will often be, no, no, no danger. Danger, run away. And then if we start tolerating it literally five seconds, 10 seconds at a time, we’re like, oh, I didn’t die. Oh, maybe I’ll be okay. And we start getting the muscles to like, oh, it’s just a feeling.

[00:50:15] It’s not anything, anything actually wrong. And we start having a lot more ability to steer our lives because we’re not running from things all the time. Sensations are not driving our lives. So hopefully that gives a little insight and uh, if you have thoughts on what you’d like to share, you can share in the chat, um, or raise your hand and we’ll be glad to tap with you when we come back from our seven minute break.

[00:50:38] Yeah. Okay. Be right back.

[00:50:43] Welcome back. Um, hold on just a second.

[00:50:53] So, um, we ready to jump in? Yeah, I think so. Cause I, if you raised your hand, could you unmute and say your name?

[00:51:10] Hi, uh, Ricky and Cathy. My name’s Nicole. Hi, Nicole. Um, I saw your note in the, the chat that you, um, is that what you’d like to, to talk about, um,

[00:51:26] leading a conversation? Yes, yes. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. There’s two different conversations that I can talk about, but that’s one of them. Yeah. Well, it’s the one that I, during the break, I was, I was contemplating, um, you wrote, I’m needing to have a conversation with my ex about providing financial support for our child, for her school and activity fees.

[00:51:46] Is that right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I love, I I love this question because it jumps right into the savvy, and it’s a difficult conversation because, hey, if somebody’s an ex, there’s usually a list of reasons, right? So, um,

[00:52:07] What feelings. So let’s go through the process if that’s okay. Is that Yeah, sure. Yep. So as you think about having that conversation, um, what comes up in your body? What sensations and feelings? Um, sickness in my stomach and in my chest and throat area is like a, like a pressure and jokingness. Okay. That’s pretty intense.

[00:52:36] How strong? Um, uh, yeah, I’d say like 10 outta 10. I’ve been avoiding it for quite a while now. Yeah. Well, let’s do some tapping. Yes. So that’s where I would start. If you’re at a 10 with that kind of sensation, it’s hard to have any other clarity or have a candid conversation, right? Yes. Yeah. Even though I have these intense sensations in my body, even though I have these intense sensations in my body and they’re telling me what, and they’re telling me, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this.

[00:53:21] Thank you body for that clarity. Thank you body for that clarity. Mm-hmm. Top of the head. I’m not to do this the way that I think I need to do it. I’m not to do this the way that I think that I need to do it. I wrote, I think I need to, what?

[00:53:44] I think I need to tell him it’s not okay that he’s not paying for things. Yep. I think I need to tell him, I think I need to tell him. I think I need to tell him. I think I need to tell him the nose and my gut thinks that that what? And my gut thinks that that is not gonna go down well, Jen, I just love it when things don’t go down well.

[00:54:17] I just love it when things don’t go down well. Oh, well, my gut just loves that. My gut just loves that. But things don’t go down. Well un under the arm. What if I trusted my gut? What if I trusted my gut? Top of the head?

[00:54:37] What other options are there than just candidly telling him what other options are there other than just candidly telling him? What do you think gut? What do you think? Okay, so in. Part of the savvy part is if I’m in my primitive brain, then I think I have to do it one way. And if my body is giving me a 10, like no, uh, you know your ex, you know the relationship.

[00:55:09] This isn’t necessarily about quieting down your body’s noise so that you can go do this thing that your body thinks is a terrible idea. Yes. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Um, we’re quieting the noise to start the candid conversation with the part of you that is speaking so loudly in a language of sensation.

[00:55:32] Yes. Do you have a sense of what your gut thinks would be some other savvy alternatives?

[00:55:44] Uh, yes. Okay. So, so another kind of savvy alternative would be like, Hey, so there’s some extra expenses for our child at the moment. And now that you’re working, I’m wondering if it would be fair now to start sharing in those costs. I understand that you pay some basic child support already and that that covers, you know, okay.

[00:56:23] Food and accommodation and stuff like that. Let, let, let, lemme pause, lemme lemme pause there. How’s your gut feeling as you keep going with, um, as I keep going, it kind of becomes a little bit awkward. Okay. So what did your gut say as you kept, I mean, when it started off it felt different, I’m guessing.

[00:56:45] Yeah, it started off like, kind of like not as sick and stuff like that. Just like, mm-hmm. More like watchful and wary. Okay. And I guess now like tears have just come cuz I’m kind of scared of Yeah. Um, eyebrow, I’m kind of scared. I’m kind of scared side of eye. Thank you. Gut. Thank you. Gut. Yeah. I’m scared that Ask your gut.

[00:57:12] I’m scared that

[00:57:17] I don’t really know. Um, I know, I don’t know, but he’s an ex, I don’t know, but he’s an ex, he’ll get angry and argue with me. Mm-hmm. Yes. It doesn’t really matter what I say. Doesn’t matter what I say. You’ll just get angry and argue, oh, we have a mismatch there. We have a mismatch there. Under the arm. I’m asking my savvy gut to continue to give me some options.

[00:57:42] I’m asking my savvy gut to continue to give me some options. Okay. What’s another option?

[00:57:53] Hey, can you, can you share the cost in this particular thing this week? Yeah. How does that feel to your gut? If it feels more like contained and just smaller. Okay. Manageable, I guess. Yeah. So Savvy.

[00:58:21] What else does your gut, I like your gut. What is your gut? What else is your giving us? Doing a better coaching job than I could. I know it’s gurgling a little bit. Gurgling. I. More break. Okay. What else?

[00:58:43] How can we support is bobek together? Yeah. Now that implies togetherness. How does, so how does that feel? So that that could be the matchup, right? Like that’s focusing on the match. Is that a match for you? How could we better focus on her, um, her activities and her schooling better together? Or, or just better?

[00:59:08] Do you think that there’s enough of a,

[00:59:14] how does your gut feel about that approach?

[00:59:22] I guess it still feels a bit scared actually about the together thing. Um mm-hmm. Together hasn’t historically worked very well, obviously. Yeah. And I don’t really know how it, how it would look better if not together. And I guess part of the, what I’m realizing with this conversation is that, um, it’s that together that I’ve been craving and speaking, and I’m asking for some stuff obviously that I need, but also underneath that is this still this need to be seen and to be appreciated and to not be the person even starting the conversation because I want the other person to already be on board side of the hand.

[01:00:15] Mm. Yep. Even though I have these really normal wants, even though I have these really normal wants and I’m seeking the together feeling and I’m seeking the together feeling. Uh, is that really what I wanna bring to this conversation? Is that really what I wanna bring to this conversation? Top of the head, Hey, gut is that what’s we’re ready for?

[01:00:46] Hey, gut, is that what we are ready for? What does your gut say?

[01:00:55] Because that’s a candid conversation. Yeah.

[01:01:04] I’m not sure, cuz my head and my, um, just area is kind of just still quite scared, I guess. Mm-hmm. Eyebrows, but there’s just still scared. I’ve got a lot of big scary feelings. I’ve got a lot of big scary feelings side of the eye and there’s something I need to c candidly share with him and there’s something that I need to candidly share with him.

[01:01:31] The eye, it seems my gut wants to keep it simple. It seems my gut wants to keep it really simple under the nose. That would give me information that would give me information. Jen, that would be pretty savvy. That would be pretty savvy. Carla. Boom. I really would, I really want and need to be savvy with this guy.

[01:01:55] I really want and need to be savvy with him and get my needs met elsewhere. Does that feel okay? Yeah. Get my needs met elsewhere.

[01:02:14] So again, I think thank you so much for, for bringing this out. If, if we, if we’re blocked, I believe that there is, A lot of intelligence in the blocks that we have. It could mean that the timing isn’t right, that we’re not prepared, or that we’re trying to get some need met in the conversation, um, that isn’t actually necessarily right and appropriate.

[01:02:43] It may be a need that we have, but they may not, may may not be the one to meet that need. If I’m having a conversation and I want Adara to be considerate, that part of her brain hasn’t developed. She can be loving, she can be bold, she can be a lot of things, but like tracking other people in that way, what I would call adult level consideration is not something, and you know, there can be mismatches if you haven’t seen a togetherness and a consideration, and that’s one of the reasons that they’re an x tapping on, like yeah, you know, that’s a mismatch for us.

[01:03:19] Just that’s the, that’s the way it is and I’m gonna meet that. Need elsewhere. Um, you’ve just done something that I think is also incredibly savvy. This is a difficult conversation with a difficult person, and you’re, you and I have had a chance to have a bit of the conversation and explore the edges with it.

[01:03:40] I, it’s one of the reasons we do this is I want to live in a world where if I have a difficult conversation to have with a difficult person, I want some other people that I can explore the edges with, that’ll bring me back into my body’s own wisdom. You landed on it. Hey, could, and, and you might even explore sh the difference between can I, uh, can you share the expense of this this week to like, she has this expense this week.

[01:04:13] Can you take care of it? Now that’s a little bit more like, and if you want to share it, like that’s the model that you want, could we share it 50 50? Like that’s moving toward a model of shared expenses, 50 50. It could be that you’re wanting to move toward a model that who can, who can make this possible for her and facilitate it from their resource.

[01:04:37] Um, you get to try on those things, but then like keeping it to, uh, with difficult people and difficult circumstances. I even, like, I turned to an AI and, and describe the situation. Um, uh, and I just asked for it to give me a one, a single sentence. Simple, straightforward, no emotion savvy way to ask, uh, would you be able to take care of the cost for a child’s school and extracurricular activity fees?

[01:05:15] Ooh. Like when I read that, I’m like, oh, okay, well that would give me a lot of information. Your gut was even savvier and taking like one expense, because that will give you a lot of information about where they are in that moment. Okay. Yeah. So, so we have, we have tools with each other. We’re, we, we’re looking for what’s the simplest way and sometimes where we need to reveal, um, the one where your gut really started to, um, like tighten up was where you started saying what you understood and all this other stuff, which is.

[01:05:58] You and I could have that conversation, like, I would appreciate someone who did that. Um, but we’re friends, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re not ex friends. Um, so like I love being understood. I love having that reflected, but my gut will tell me immediately, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t do that.

[01:06:20] Months will go by and what ends up coming out often is the simplest kind of way of communicating as a starting point. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you, um, bringing this up for us. Thank you. That was really helpful. And yeah. Eyeopening, I guess. Yeah. Lots of things to see there. That I was looking for in a simple conversation, making it quite big.

[01:06:47] Yeah. Mm-hmm. I love the example of this is how I find out what’s real for me. This is how I know, like listening to your body and like, oh, if I say are we feel more connected and aligned when we say the truth, the truth is it, it exists right this moment. We generally don’t feel better or more aligned if we’re telling a lie.

[01:07:10] We often feel we, it’s our bodies are great antennas. So I love having her listen to her gut and see what, you know. That’s a great way to do it. Also realize that sometimes, um, when we’re moving outside our comfort zone, We have to get past the agitation to actually listen to our gut, cuz our survival brain’s like danger, danger, and we’re getting flooded with noise.

[01:07:32] So, um, we have to get to a place where we can actually listen to ourselves. And I loved how you guided that, Rick. That was really beautiful. Mm-hmm. If I’m at a 10 of any kind of emotional reaction, I am not in the place to have a candid conversation by my definition. Um, I can shriek, I can, um, cry. I can be real with my emotions, but they’re going to be more raw and activated.

[01:07:57] Um, and for me, I, I use tapping the best I can most often that I can when I’m up in that scale, cuz I know I don’t have the same clarity. Um, and then dropping into the process as you described it, Cathy, being with my feelings, um, asking my body for, well, what I assume if I’m. Uh, I went through this for three months where I kept like, all I need to do is return this painting.

[01:08:34] Um, and I couldn’t come up with what to say because everything that I thought I would get this reaction. And now in retrospect, there were a couple of things. One is, um, I was making it more emotional and complicated than, than really was right. Um, I wanted to say a lot and, and the like. And every time I started like writing out or talking out loud what I wanted to say or communicate, my body definitely had a reaction I would’ve thought.

[01:09:11] Well, I’m just being weak or I’m being scared. Well, what if I’m being wise? What if being scared is wise? You know? Um, sometimes, uh, it’s often an echo of the past, but you know, there’s a wisdom if I don’t want drama, finding ways. And that’s, and what was fascinating was the way that it played out when it got down to the simplest but meaningful way to communicate.

[01:09:38] I appreciate having had the painting. It’s time, you know, I’d like to return it now. Um, it was so simple and the connection was a little awkward, but fine. And I. I invite us to notice and share. We have a community center, a thriving We have, uh, a circle, thriving now, dot Register a .US.COM domain today! where, uh, we share what we notice about how life unfolds when we explore and go deeper into candid conversations.

[01:10:17] Um, it’s not to judge and criticize, it’s a should free space. Thank you for someone, um, sharing that, that it’s about sharing wisdom from each other’s gut, from life as it unfolds. How do you navigate people with, um, real challenging mismatches with how we’re oriented and what matters to us? Um, things like that.

[01:10:46] Um, so you have any hands up? I think, um, I’d love to just talk. Um, so there was another thing was another person shared. I have a good friend who’s loud. You hear her before seeing her. I’d love to be able to gracefully convey that. I appreciate her lowering the volume and let’s it, it, there’s a lot of potential landmines in, in sharing that.

[01:11:07] Thank you. Um, and there it is. There’s some people are not aware of how loud they are and some of us are more sensitive to loud sounds than others. And so I love the idea of, um, like Rick talked about with his kid, like sharing what we’re, what we’re actually experiencing. It’s like, um, And you wanna share what’s true.

[01:11:31] Because when we’re trying to be candid, we don’t wanna, we don’t wanna pretend or lie because that puts walls between us and the other person. But there may be truth in it. You wanna, if you can find a truth that’s also a positive to mix in with what you wanna share, it might be like, wow. I love like Emerald.

[01:11:50] Sometimes Rick’s kid will get on the phone with me and he’s just like, really exuberant and I’m just like, wow. I might say something like, I love hearing your voice. My body feels so happy when I hear get to talk with you. And I’m noticing it’s a lot at the end of my day. Like, I’m, I’m, it’s the, the higher noise is harder for my ears to, to let in and I wanna be able to just welcome you.

[01:12:12] Cause I’m so excited to see you. So I think that. When there’s a truth there, we can be candid without having to be blunt. Well, I took, I’ve done a lot of radical honesty. I love some of it. Some of it is people use it as an excuse to share about the other person and they’re like, you’re stupid, or You shouldn’t wear that shirt.

[01:12:31] Or you’re lazy, like judgements about each other. Whereas like the, the radical honesty I like to practice is truth about myself. Wow. That while part of me feels very warm and happy to hear your voice, I’m also flinching a little and pulling back cuz the volume that you’re sharing with is more than my system really wants to hear her.

[01:12:57] So rather than judging the other person, And sharing our own internal experiences. Um, and there can be good and bad in there sometimes. And I think being able to, I love the appreciation sandwich. I think it’s overused. And I, I do have a couple friends that when they appreciate me, I’m like, oh, what’s coming next?

[01:13:14] Cuz they don’t generally appreciate me unless there’s like a negative coming in there and I’m like, oh. Um, but when it’s gen, when there’s a genuine, like, I really do love to see you, I love to talk to you. Um, I wanna spend time with you and for my nervous system, the volume you’re talking is, is, is more, more than I feel comfortable.

[01:13:33] Like I don’t feel as welcoming talking to you, um, figuring out what’s true and listening to your own body, getting quiet and clear with your own self before you share with that person, um, can be really helpful. And I think that sometimes the first thing we have to do, and I love this about radical honesty, the people that practice it, the way I like it to practice is it’s about if we have a lot of anger or sadness or fear, It’s good to burn some of that off before we confront that person.

[01:14:02] Oh, yeah. Um, anger, sadness, and fear. Yeah. So if there’s a lot of that, having a practice con, Rick and Rick and I have practice conversations all the time. Like, oh, I have to talk to my boss about this thing. Can I run it past you? Or we can be, when we’re with someone we feel really safe with and we practice this, we can be like, we can be the mean, the the negative voice.

[01:14:26] Like, you’re fucking too loud. Why are you always so loud? You hurt my ears. Maybe we have to let a little bit of that out first or tap on that first. So that we can get to the, to the more quiet things inside, like, oh, I do really appreciate this person. I would appreciate that. I would be able to be much more present if the, the volume was a little bit lower, so I can request that.

[01:14:50] But it’s hard to request that when we’re in the midst of like, a lot of like, uh, this hurts my ears. I’m like, tolerating it. So feel free to burn off some of those energies either with tapping. Um, I love chair exercises where you pretend the person’s in the chair and you tell them all, like, you don’t have to edit.

[01:15:09] Like, they’re not really there, but just like, why are you so loud? Why are you hurting my ears? I’ve been tolerating all these years. Like, just let it out first. And then you can get below the judgments a little bit better and start sharing from your own experience, like, uh, yeah, it does hurt. You know, it’s hard on my system.

[01:15:29] It doesn’t feel good to me. Is there anything we could do together to make this better? Mm-hmm. Thoughts on that? So, yeah. Um,

[01:15:45] I, I just was inspired by that and what someone else had ha had also shared. Um, if I feel trapped and the candid conversation is to try to get me out of feeling trapped or, um, that I don’t have any options that are a yes for me, um, that’s, that’s a special case of situation. Uh, someone wrote, I have a neighbor that eats with their mouth open.

[01:16:17] It’s really disgusting for me to see. Um, now if I don’t feel like I could say, Hey, you’re eating, I’m, let me give you, uh, let me give you a moment to finish up. I’m gonna go, um, I’m gonna go put the laundry in, or I’m gonna go, like, I take a graceful exit. Um, the, and the reason I, I want to know that I can make an exit if somebody is eating.

[01:16:43] I may not even want to mention the eating. Say, oh, wait a second, I need to go take care of something. Um, that is saying, I don’t know whether they can or willing or can even hear me or whether it is even a yes if I feel trapped. Um, I know that that activates me. So part of having a candid conversation is to look at that.

[01:17:08] Um, as Cathy said, if I take some of the disgust or resentment or other things down through engaging with other people, writing it out, having a chat, um, talking to myself, getting clear about, well, what have I been suppressing? What really matters to me? Is this my thing? You know, like, um, I, as you said, the owning it is, Hey, I, um, this is about me.

[01:17:41] Um, I was so conditioned about chewing with your mouth closed, that I’ll just be frank with you. I can’t be around anyone when they’re eating and their mouth is, is not, it’s, it’s just. I keep hearing, you know, whatever is true for you is like, it’s just too much for me. Um, uh, there are people that actually have a condition, um, and when, when you own your, your it, your cell and say, Hey, what would you like me to do?

[01:18:15] Do you want me, you know, is it something where you have, you’d like to just shift your, the way that you’re chewing, um, to accommodate me for, for this moment? Um, or would you like me to like take a walk and come back to talk to you when you’re done? Now that’s really candid and I can. I can tell in my body that there are people that I would never say that to because I know their psychological profile enough from interacting with them about, Hey, how you doing?

[01:18:47] What’s the weather? Hey, could you move that trash can? Um, like I’ve, I’ve had interactions with them where my empathetic awareness and my perimeter brain are saying, oh no, just be free. Like, don’t feel you have to stay, find a dozen exits, um, without feeling trapped or abused by say, look, this is a mismatch.

[01:19:14] I believe that neutral things support my primitive brain. Relaxing someone. Um, eating that way may really be a mismatch. Um, I know people love to play with the food. Um, I’m being very clear with my kids. Hey, Playing at the dinner table is a mismatch for me. I’ve cooked the meal. I need this space to be, um, not a play free and enjoyment free, but not sticking carrots up your nose and, um, stuff like that.

[01:19:49] Like it, it’s, it’s, it’s a mismatch for me. And the more neutral I can be about it and clear that, that allows me to, um, say, as you say, radically honest about what’s true for me and, and allowing us to, um, find adaptations. Uh, I have special earplugs. These earplugs allow me to have a conversation, but they lower whatever is being said by about 18 decibels.

[01:20:24] Um, they sell 'em on Amazon. I think they’re called calm, but I’m not. I think they may be, uh, a different loop, I think. Anyway, there are a number of them. Uh, they’re sold to people that are on the neurodiversity spectrum for school and other things, their versions that block more or less. But you can still have a conversation, but it reduces the volume.

[01:20:45] Um, I, I believe even the AirPods Pro have some conversation modes, which, um, you could have it focus on their conversation, but lower the volume. Um, why are we coming up with these technologies? Because, gosh, there are mismatches and mismatches and mismatches, and if we’re gonna have candid conversation to me, if I own my mismatch, like I can tell, you know, like.

[01:21:12] I want you to have a life where you can be really enthusiastic and I have this limitation. It’s a and and it’s a mismatch. When I’m trying to do this or try or need to do that, or my brain is in a particular place, how can we together co-create ways for that to work out? Yeah. And with, with people that you might feel safe enough with, you could just share like, Hey, I’m, I’m noticing that I owning it in the sense of like, I, I remember it’s something that from my childhood or I, I get easily triggered by something can give them a context of where you’re coming from without seeming so judgy because it is like, there is a judgment like, oh my God, why are they eating like that?

[01:21:56] It’s kind of disgusting. Versus who knows, like maybe their nose doesn’t work Right. Or they’re like, you know, we don’t know what’s going on for different people. But like, kind of saying, I noticed this is, this particular thing is bothersome to me for my own reasons. You know, is there, and, and maybe talking about it if you can, and like, or maybe we shouldn’t schedule to eat together.

[01:22:18] Um, like let’s not scheduled to have dinners or meals together. Mm-hmm. And I think some of this is, as we step into it, we start building these muscles and finding out what hap how it works. At first it was, I was so nervous, I was really awkward about it, but I kept practicing cuz I really, I was so craving connection with real people.

[01:22:39] And when I’ve, I’ve gotten good at this enough now that unless it’s really stressful, it’s actually, I can use almost any conversation to deepen my connection. That doesn’t mean I want somebody to be nervous, but even though it, well actually sometimes the harder things are the ones that really build the relationship.

[01:22:56] That build the connection and the, you know, like having to talk about something like, oh, I really wish this was gonna happen, or could we make this happen? But this is about me like, There’s a realness and a way of exploring each other and how we interface with each other. That’s really powerful. So if you practice this, I practice with my cat, I practice with Rick.

[01:23:19] Like I didn’t start off with people that I didn’t know, but I’ve gotten, so I have the real conversation with a lot of people now. Um, I just really think it adds a depth and a, and a joy and fulfillment to life that I didn’t have before, and I wish that for you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Our next real skills workshop in this series of savvy, relating and engaging is going to be on navigating emotional limits.

[01:23:49] And this is, this is what we’re talking about. How do you navigate your own limits, the limits of others, and do so in a savvy way where you can continue to find right distance, right depth, um, deepen relationships and really cultivate a genuine. A genuine relationship that serves you for many years to come.

[01:24:10] Um, really appreciate those of you that are here live. Those of you that are gonna watch the replay, thank you for being with us. Um, we invite comments, we invite feedback, and, and while Cathy and I are the facilitators here, it’s your experiences around c candid conversations that if you feel that I say yes for you to share, like this is a situation, this is what I tried and this is what I noticed inside of me.

[01:24:41] Um, that builds an, a wisdom base. You know, there’s lots of facts and knowledge and other things. I want thriving now to be cultivating shared wisdom about what’s alive for humans now. Um, they’re. There are truths that have been around for thousands of years. I’m grateful for the ancient and the fresh and how we approach these things.

[01:25:06] Like a candid conversation. What is the language? I appreciate those, um, people that have already done that. Um, Susan Campbell has been a big, uh, a big person and I’ve, I feel like I’ve integrated a lot of the wisdom that she has shared, um, from working with her clients and sharing their wisdom and what they found.

[01:25:26] And she has a number of books that are really good. Getting Real is one of my favorite. Um, and she gives really practical, uh, examples. And she is in her eighties and lives a couple mile, a couple hours from here. I’ve been to a number of her workshops and it’s just, she brings that realness in a way that I haven’t seen many people do.

[01:25:45] So, uh, encourage you to check it out if you’re interested. Mm-hmm. And someone shared, I’ve been so far to go with this, I don’t think we’re ever done. I think it’s finding new layers of it. So if you feel like you have a long ways to go, just think of all the richness you can find in your life in that emotional athletes.

[01:26:02] We have our limits before we’ve sculpting, crafting. Yes. Thank you, Cathy. Bless you. Appreciate you all. Yeah, and thank you all for exploring this with us. You rock. You’re really, I admire your courage.

[01:26:18] Keep it up.

[01:26:21] ​

Great to have you on this journey with us!