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Being Present… Now
[00:00:00] Rick: Being Present… Now, this is a real skills workshop for energy savvy. And what I mean by that, I’m Rick from ThrivingNow, is that I believe that in the present moment, the now there’s a multitude, a magnificent spectrum of things that are happening in energy space within us, around us, and in those that we’re connected to.
[00:00:31] And part of thriving, I believe, is developing more of the capacity to be skillful with that truth for me as a truth, um, in the moment. And I’m here co-creating with Cathy Vartuli from ThrivingNow and TheIntimacyDojo. And yet I wonder, Cathy, if there is. Good juju available here and now. Why do we spend so much of our awareness elsewhere in the past, in the future and kind of disconnected?
[00:01:14] Cathy: Um, I, I wonder about that. 'cause I, I think that there’s a lot of socialization that goes on. I watch, I remember watching Nadira when she was very little Rick’s daughter and she would just like, she’d find something and she’d be so fascinated to be really into whatever that was tasting it and touching it and examining it.
[00:01:33] Um, I think that as a society we’re not often taught how to be with what is our society teaches us to medicate or distract ourselves away from things to run away from the feelings that we don’t want to feel. And so we never really develop. And, and please. I think Rick and Gem are amazing parents, and Adir is much more mindful than a lot of people.
[00:01:56] But there’s also like, oh, there’s tv. There’s ways to escape these bad feelings that are really intense sometimes. And we learn the habit of avoiding them. And when we’re, we get good at avoiding things, we are avoiding the moment. Right now, it’s, we don’t build the muscles for comfort or for feeling the discomfort.
[00:02:18] And I’m not saying we have to wallow in the pain. Like if I have a headache, I take, uh, some Advil, that’s not a problem, but. I think we’re really good at not being here and now we’re somewhere in the future. We feel anxious, worried about the future. Um, we’re reminiscing about the past. Oh, I should have said that.
[00:02:35] How could they do that to me? Um, or we’re avoiding what’s happening now. We’re either distracting ourselves by thinking about other things or we’re actually pretending we delude ourselves about what is actually happening because we don’t wanna face anything right now. And I think the more I can be in the moment now with myself, the more fulfilled I feel like there’s like just sitting and watching a flower for two minutes, I’m like, wow, all that stress went away.
[00:03:03] And I feel really nourished by the experience. Whereas if I was rushing around with my face, you know, Facebook or whatever, I would just feel kind of frenetic a little bit. So I think that where we’re kind of conditioned not to be here in the now, and we’re not really given the skills. So if you’re here, I think this is just a really beautiful place to.
[00:03:23] Look at this, and if, even if you are to practice already, we’re like, let’s look at it in different ways. And maybe here are different ways we might be look, seeing different perspectives on how we’re avoiding the present. 'cause I keep finding out more ways I do it and I’m always like, I thought I had this all understood.
[00:03:39] Wait, I do that too. So even if you, you like, if you’re doing a lot of daily practice, um, if you have challenges coming up, like someone said, um, restricted breathing often is anxiety. Um, and then we, we struggle with that. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:04:01] Rick: Well, it does happen unconsciously. We have wiring that’s designed to by default take care of us, protect us. So if there’s, um, an emotion that any of us tend to want to avoid, it’s just not something that we feel savvy with. That’s why I called it, you know. Emotional savvy, energy savvy is that, um, I don’t know any human that doesn’t have that.
[00:04:32] I can tell you having observed her for nearly five years, that my daughter likes to avoid the feeling of boredom, bored. I don’t know what to do.
[00:04:47] Cathy: I’ve heard that refrain when I was visiting like 20 times in a row. Like, oh no, I
[00:04:52] Rick: dunno. Well, how about this? I don’t know what to do. Right. She does know what will help her avoid that feeling.
[00:05:01] And that’s like watching a show on television or, uh, doing some work, schoolwork on her iPad and that uncomfortable feeling of not knowing what to do. I in. On one hand, there’s, and, and I think that this is one of the key points that I would have all of us think about is that in the, in the present moment, there are multiple cups and tanks and, and chaises and septic tanks.
[00:05:42] Right? And so I can look at this and, and, and know, be aware that if she doesn’t know what to do, that, in that now there’s an opportunity for her to go deeper and to feel well, what, what would actually be pleasing to me right now?
[00:06:06] Cathy: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:07] Rick: There’s a pathway into presence that if. And sometimes she follows this and she, she can do it like, I don’t know what, and she won’t even finish the sentence.
[00:06:22] She’s dropped in and she now knows exactly
[00:06:27] Cathy: sometimes
[00:06:28] Rick: I’m going to paint and sometimes she’s stuck in that uncomfortable loop and wants to avoid it. And so acknowledging that, you know, a, a 5-year-old has it, a 60 plus year old has it, um, across the spectrum. This is a really powerful human experience to have a, a state of our being that we’re just really uncomfortable with, brings up stuff.
[00:07:04] Um, for some people it’s, it’s anger and for some people it’s powerlessness like. Oh, I’m not actually able to, to shift this situation in a way that I, I would really like to. Yeah. Um, and so if we’re going to be present now, there’s the, I, I’m going to, if I’ve been kind of checked out to use that, um, or calling it in or dissociated or distracted, um, by something that really, it’s just not all that much a yes for me.
[00:07:54] It’s a yes in the sense of it feels better to be distracted by it than to be with an uncom. The uncomfortable feeling as we come back. This is where tapping really can help. And we’re gonna do some of this is, I’m gonna be noticing first. My primitive brain gets first crack. It just does. We’re all wired that way, wiring.
[00:08:19] Now, the first crack might be a millisecond or two or a hundred or a hundred hours. Like how hold your, how much your primitive brain holds onto, um, what it perceives? Uh, depends and we cultivate, um, the skill of being, yes, I’ve got a primitive brain that’s picking this up. And what else? And the, and the, and what else is a big part of the real skill.
[00:08:48] It says, yes, I am angry and
[00:08:56] wow, I’m free to not actually have to do anything about it right now. So I’m angry about this situation. Maybe I, maybe I can’t do anything about it right now. Guess what? I’m also free enough to sit and be like, oh, I actually don’t have to write an email. I don’t have to text back. I don’t have to quit my job.
[00:09:19] I don’t have to. Wow. I have some freedom going on here. At least for the next few moments. I’m free to not have to. Now, as a freedom oriented person, there is a cup called don’t have to, which is, uh, important for me. And part of presencing can be like, there’s this, but I, I actually don’t have to. And energetically in that move, which sometimes helps with tapping, there’s a, I’m moving outta my primitive brain, which is very much fight flight breeze, flee Fawn, um, into.
[00:10:10] I can be here now, right? Because if I don’t have to do act on it, I can be here. Now.
[00:10:20] That’s, that’s doesn’t happen by default in my nervous system. Um, it’s now a thousand times easier than it was.
[00:10:33] Cathy: You start creating our own neural pathways over time.
[00:10:35] Rick: Create our neural pathways and presence, which is like, oh, my breathing’s constricted. Oh, I’m wanting to check out on my phone. Oh, that’s where the pause comes in.
[00:10:49] Um, we did a whole workshop on the powerful pause. Um, if taking a pause is hard for you, that might be a great workshop to add to your skillset, but the presence is to me, where the primitive brain. Can be activated, but it’s not driving everything. And there’s an awareness that grows of some freedom, um, and some other things that end up serving us in that.
[00:11:23] Cathy: I’d like to share what you just shared from a slightly different perspective. It’s the same concept, but it’s one that’s really helped me. Sometimes what we’re feeling is an indicator light. So ADRA says she doesn’t know what to do when she probably wants to avoid something. She’s, she wants to be entertained out of it.
[00:11:40] I have a tendency to feel guilty if there’s something I want to do. I, so if I feel guilt, I’m like, for a longer, long, long time, it was guilt. Oh, I must be bad. Obviously, I’m a bad person. I’m feeling guilt. It’s true. But over time, I’ve learned, I feel guilty when I want something that I maybe don’t think that I should have.
[00:12:01] My primitive brain thinks that it’s not okay to have, I learned when I was little to not ask for too much, like it was too much of a burden for my family. So now when I feel guilt, my first reaction is, oh, I’m a bad, horrible person. And they’re like, oh wait. I learned something new. What was that? Oh, probably want something.
[00:12:20] It doesn’t mean I get to have it necessarily, but um, if we go into our permanent brain and like someone shared, like uncertainty is hard to be with. It really is. Often we will decide in our intellectual brain what something means. Like I decide guilt means I’m a bad person. I have neural pathways for that.
[00:12:41] They go really fast just being with the unknown. I’m feeling some feelings. Can I be curious about them? Can I just be with them without immediately deciding what they mean? Because we get these old ruts and there are ways to avoid what we’re actually experiencing. We’ve decided often when we were 2, 3, 4, 5, what this particular experience meant and we jump into it and we just follow that loop as never being like, huh.
[00:13:11] What is new about this? What can, so choosing to not know and then just witness what’s going on can really open things up. So what Rick was saying about the primitive brain is absolutely true. We get into the, the primitive brain wants to avoid things. It’s trying to keep us safe. We build these ruts.
[00:13:30] Certain feelings mean certain things, we just follow it around. So if you feel uncertainty, your print of brain could jump in and say, I’m not safe. I don’t know what to do, pointing some fingers back at me. I must know what to do. I must decide right this minute how to fix it, and I’m gonna, you know, run away from this feeling.
[00:13:48] 'cause uncertainty means I don’t feel safe. I don’t know what to do because when I was little. I was confused at things that were happening and it felt very unsafe. So I wanna avoid that feeling versus, huh, I’m feeling uncertain what’s actually going on. Can I just be with this feeling for just a little bit and be curious?
[00:14:08] And I don’t know if that helped, but I thought that the two different perspectives on the same thing might help people see it a little bit differently.
[00:14:15] Rick: Absolutely. That’s why I love co-creating with, with presence and, um, I use that example, um, of uncertainty. Um, so you just described like uncertainty is, is a threat.
[00:14:33] Mm-hmm. So if someone who has a primitive brain that says, uncertainty is a threat, I must decide. I must know and I’m gonna go do something, I’m gonna go hide, I’m gonna go escape it. Right? Uncertainty is a threat and I’m gonna go escape it. What they’ve done and are is to me, oh, I just became certain, uncertainty was a threat.
[00:15:02] I’ve go, I’ve just become certain that un that uncertainty is a threat and I’m going to go off and do something else.
[00:15:09] Cathy: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:10] Rick: I anti doted it. Okay. And this is, this is how I might tap about that. Even though part of me is convinced,
[00:15:19] Cathy: even though part of me is convinced
[00:15:20] Rick: that uncertainty is a threat,
[00:15:22] Cathy: that uncertainty is a threat.
[00:15:24] Rick: I can’t stay present with it.
[00:15:26] Cathy: I can’t stay present with it.
[00:15:27] Rick: I have to fight it.
[00:15:28] Cathy: I have to fight it
[00:15:30] Rick: or run from it.
[00:15:31] Cathy: Or run from it.
[00:15:33] Rick: Or
[00:15:33] Cathy: just check out. Or just check out.
[00:15:37] Rick: Ah, part of me feels certain I have to do one of those.
[00:15:41] Cathy: Part of me feels certain that I have to do one of those.
[00:15:44] Rick: What if that’s not true?
[00:15:46] Cathy: What if that’s not true?
[00:15:48] Rick: Top of the Head:? Is that the only way to look at uncertainty?
[00:15:54] Cathy: Is that the only way to look at uncertainty?
[00:15:57] Rick: Eyebrow:? I do have some uncertainty.
[00:16:00] Cathy: I do have some uncertainty
[00:16:02] Rick: Side of the Eye:. Don’t tell anyone, but I’ve always had lots of uncertainty.
[00:16:08] Cathy: Don’t tell anyone, but I’ve always had lots of uncertainty.
[00:16:12] Rick: I’ve always had tons of uncertainty,
[00:16:15] Cathy: always had tons of uncertainty.
[00:16:20] Rick: And I’m wise enough to know, and I’m wise enough to know
[00:16:26] Cathy: I’m wise enough to know
[00:16:27] Rick: Jen and even be certain
[00:16:31] Cathy: and even be certain.
[00:16:33] Rick: Hold on, that I’m gonna have uncertainty.
[00:16:35] Cathy: That I’m gonna have uncertainty.
[00:16:37] Rick: And that’s hard on part of me.
[00:16:39] Cathy: That’s hard on part of me.
[00:16:43] Rick: I wonder if there’s any other parts of me.
[00:16:46] Cathy: I wonder if there’s any other parts of me.
[00:16:48] Rick: That when they’re present with uncertainty,
[00:16:51] Cathy: that when they’re present with uncertainty
[00:16:55] Rick: might even find it intriguing.
[00:16:57] Cathy: Might even find it intriguing.
[00:17:00] Rick: Now, if you get a strong no, that’s your primitive brain, it’s going to have an opinion on what we’re doing. We love our primitive brain. It got us here. If we didn’t have it, none of us would be on the call.
[00:17:13] Um, we’d be a memory. The primitive brain is really useful and it’s a part of this dance. But when see, I see in the uncertainty is hard to be with, be with if, if you, if, if there’s a cup in you that wants to live as a wise and powerful human, that statement fits that cup. Mm-hmm. Uncertainty is hard to be with.
[00:17:46] Yeah. We’re. We’re wired to be delusional rather than sitting with uncertainty. Have you ever heard somebody that was arrogantly right about something that you absolutely knew they were so wrong? Like, oh, the, the stock market’s gonna crash to zero and it’s gonna happen in October, right? Like, they just know it.
[00:18:13] They’re so, the uncertainty is impossible for them. So they, they, what do they do? They jump to a kind of a delusional certainty when you know, Hey, we don’t know. So
[00:18:28] Cathy: someone asked, um, what do you mean by uncertainty? And I think that’s a great question. I love defining like what are, what are we talking about?
[00:18:35] Um, I think an example might help for, there’s a lot of polarization in our country about politics and what’s right and wrong, and there’s often a lot of the news feeds are often full of like, outrage. How dare they do this? There’s not a lot of uncertainty about it. It’s like, no, they’re wrong, they’re bad.
[00:18:53] Um, an example, my mom. Um, is very upset. She’d heard about the windmills causing a lot of, um, environmental destruction and she just assumed they were bad. She jumped to that conclusion 'cause she didn’t wanna be uncertain about it. It felt really uncomfortable to go, huh, I don’t know about this. Let me look into it.
[00:19:12] And I did some research and I said, yeah, there’s sometimes where they can be environmentally impactful and these are some things that people are trying to do to help mitigate it. So like there, it is not a black and white answer. There’s not a yes, this is the right way. Um, which is uncomfortable for us.
[00:19:28] Like we’d like to have. Yes, this is, I’m a hundred percent good, those other people are bad. That makes us feel very like righteous and safe in some ways, but it also blocks us from learning more. So I actually just assumed windmills were good and I did the research for my mom and I’m like. Wow. There are places where they’re really actually harming the environment and certain states have put in rules that you can’t do this and they have to turn the land back and there have to room for animals to live in there too.
[00:19:57] Um, and it was like, oh wow. If I had been so convinced of my rightness that when mills are good all the time and my mom, my mom and I would just be in conflict because we were just like, oh, she’s wrong. Obviously she’s wrong. As opposed to, oh, she was right about some things. I’m right about some things, and we can actually learn and improve the situation.
[00:20:18] So not knowing if something is good or bad, right or wrong, or what to do next, if we’re willing to sit with that for a minute, and it’s a skill that we build up over time. If we can be with, I don’t actually know the answer to this right now. I’m just gonna witness what’s happening. I’m gonna experience what is going on in my body, the information that’s out there.
[00:20:42] I get, I become wiser. I become, I can take an action that’s really aware and loving as opposed to a knee jerk. Like, I need to get away from not knowing this is terrifying. I need to make a decision right now. I don’t know if that helps with the uncertainty definition. I hope it does.
[00:21:00] Rick: Well and, and and wise people across all of human history, as far as we can tell, have pointed to uncertainty.
[00:21:07] Mm-hmm. As one of the things that humans, um, we have evolved because we don’t like uncertainty. Right. The temperature inside my house is a lot more certain because I have a heat pump than it would be. If I was relying on the weather because it was sunny, uh, few minutes ago before we started, and now it’s cloudy and it looks like it’s gonna rain, gonna have more control and uncertainty.
[00:21:36] I really, I, we, we can, we can, and this is, this is part of being present is, oh, yeah. Being uncertain is hard, but that doesn’t make it bad.
[00:21:49] Cathy: Being uncertain is hard, but it doesn’t make it bad.
[00:21:53] Rick: What if I, what if I explored some simple uncertainties?
[00:21:57] Cathy: What if I explored some simple uncertainties?
[00:22:04] Rick: I don’t have to jump to the big scary ones.
[00:22:06] Cathy: I don’t have to jump to the big scary ones.
[00:22:14] Rick: And my brain might do that,
[00:22:17] Cathy: and my brain wants to do it. For sure. Yeah.
[00:22:26] Rick: Uncertainty holds the possibility of what, when you actually are with an uncertainty.
[00:22:37] Cathy: I think there’s a lot of things we can experience there that we might be wrong, that we might not have control. Um, that something like someone shared that I’m wrong or bad, um, mine is, I’m not smart enough to figure this out.
[00:22:54] I should already know this one of my, now
[00:22:57] Rick: all of those, to me, take every single one of every single one of those takes us out of the being present now.
[00:23:04] Cathy: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:23:07] Rick: We’re still either
[00:23:08] Cathy: projecting to the future or in the past and notice how powerful
[00:23:11] Rick: that, that impulse to go out of like, oh, I’m wrong.
[00:23:15] That’s, that’s not being present with anything really. It’s becoming certain. I’m taking something that’s uncomfortable, this feeling of uncertainty and I’m making it certain by deciding I’m wrong. Okay?
[00:23:33] Yeah.
[00:23:38] What freedom possibilities are in uncertainty?
[00:23:42] Cathy: What freedom possibilities are in uncertainty?
[00:23:48] Rick: How am I free? If I’m uncertain?
[00:23:50] Cathy: How am I free? If I’m uncertain,
[00:23:56] Rick: do I really want a completely certain life?
[00:23:59] Cathy: Do I really want a completely certain life?
[00:24:02] Rick: If someone had a list of everything I’m going to eat and when,
[00:24:06] Cathy: if someone had a list of what I’m going to eat and when,
[00:24:09] Rick: and I skipped to the end of the list
[00:24:11] Cathy: and I skipped to the end of the list
[00:24:13] Rick: and it said last meal,
[00:24:15] Cathy: and it said last meal.
[00:24:18] Rick: And that would be it.
[00:24:20] Cathy: That would be it.
[00:24:21] Rick: I would have meal certainty for the rest of my days.
[00:24:25] Cathy: I’d have meal certainty for the rest of my days.
[00:24:29] Rick: What would I, what would I miss?
[00:24:32] Cathy: What would I miss?
[00:24:33] Rick: What would I hate about that?
[00:24:35] Cathy: What would I hate about that?
[00:24:38] Rick: And see if you can just be like, we, we are human. We have to eat.
[00:24:43] It’s an essential survival thing. But there’s so much more about eating and cooking and preparing and considering
[00:24:55] if somebody gave you a meal plan, it was just, look, that’s your meal plan. You know? That’s it. You’re certain
[00:25:09] uncertainty means that there is something someone said that I can learn, right? If I have certainty. Then all the questions are answered.
[00:25:22] Think about it. If you have certainty, then all the questions are answered.
[00:25:31] Certainty to me says there’s, there’s a quality of freedom. I do not know what I’m having for dinner tonight, just to let you know. I don’t know what my family’s having for dinner, for sure. Um, and as a simpleton chef of the family, you’d think Rick would know. But I have a, I have a pallet of possibilities, some easier and some harder that after the workshop, I can, I can choose
[00:26:03] now if I’m present with my body right now.
[00:26:12] And you can try this. Just be present with your body right now.
[00:26:21] And if it’s an uncertainty, are there any things that your, your, your liver is asking for your liver’s on your lower right side? Uh, I mean, um, around the ribs right side. Ask your liver, Hey, is there anything you’d like tonight?
[00:26:48] Now my liver says some hot tea toward bedtime. Now, that’s not, that was not even on my, if I’m pretty certain about what I’m gonna do today, that was not on my list. But by being free to tune into parts of me, what would my brain like? Hmm. Hot protein, probably beef. Oh yeah. My perimeter brain goes. Yep.
[00:27:18] Mm-hmm. Not a lot. Don’t overfill, but some, yeah, my blood goes, yeah, that would be nice. Now, between now and an hour from now, my body, it’s uncertain whether my body’s gonna stay in that mode, by the way. And if I’m present with my body now, when an hour has passed, I may get a different answer, um,
[00:27:50] but there’s a cup that’s filled by. I am free to listen to myself with more tenderness and responsiveness by being uncertain
[00:28:09] if.
[00:28:14] If we look at anything that’s uncertain, see if you can explore
[00:28:25] what energies are present. When there’s an uncertainty that that bothers you, you really wish it was more certain.
[00:28:39] What is co-present? There’s a, there’s a term in energy work of co-presence and I think that it goes to that, that multi-dimensional aspect of energy. Um. You know, the grass is greener over the septic tank, you know, is a thing. And I think you had an expression. Um, and
[00:28:59] Cathy: in Buddhism they say no mud, no LUTs.
[00:29:02] So there’s not the challenges and the, if we don’t experience the negative things, we don’t grow, we don’t become stronger, better people. We, there’s no lotus, there’s, so the lotus grows in the mud. And if you have no mud, the things we don’t like, we have this, we don’t ever have this beautiful flower that comes from us.
[00:29:23] So the, the concept is having a cup, you don’t have to have everything perfect. And I think a lot of it, my fingers pointing back to me. I want everything to do, just be just right and then I’ll be present. I’ll be present when things are going well. Um, but there’s never a time in my life that everything has been perfect.
[00:29:40] I could delude myself that they have been, but there’s not really truly a time when like everything was perfect according to some script in my head. So if I can have a cup of, wow, these things are beautiful, right this moment and a cup of these are things that I don’t especially like or wanna avoid and just be with, what is, that’s really powerful.
[00:30:02] I. When I don’t wanna, I, and it takes experience and I, I know people that I’ve been, again, studying Buddhism and there’s people there that have been doing it for 50, 60, 70 years and they’re like, we’re still learning every day. But it’s like, oh, can I be with just what is right this minute without having it to be different or for me to be okay or for me to be present with it.
[00:30:25] Just what is, and as one of the people that I’ve been learning from, I really respect him. He is like, just because we’re with what is doesn’t mean we don’t fight like hell to make the next moment different. But we are with this moment just as it is. And then we have more energy and more leverage to actually go, huh, I’m really aware of what’s there.
[00:30:47] How can I make the next moment better or different?
[00:30:52] Rick: Hmm.
[00:30:57] So being present, um. One of the things I notice about my ai ThrivingNow dot com slash Gus is that, um, whatever I bring to him that’s kind of heady. The first suggestion is something like feet on the floor, hand on your heart. So uncertainty that is swimming around up here. See if, if you feel your feet, just the process of just noticing your feet, you’re extending your awareness and your nervous system as far as it goes, the longest nerves are from your brain all the way down to your toes.
[00:31:46] Um,
[00:31:50] and when you do that, see if the energy balance changes in your, in your body. And as you take a breath in, I, I like the feeling of my hand over, sometimes over the Collarbone: points, sometimes over my heart. Take a breath in, let the exhale be a little longer. That sends a signal to your vagus nerve and your body, Hey, the uncertainty is, is not an immediate survival, immediate survival threat.
[00:32:37] And that can be a relief to your body. Just that alone is saying, I may be triggered like it’s an immediate survival threat, but by putting my hand on my heart, feeling my toes, which, um, our nervous system is designed. To kind of disconnect from our lower body mm-hmm. So that we can run as, run faster than our tissues actually can do without damage away.
[00:33:08] Like it wants to be able to run, it wants to be able to fight, um, beyond exhaustion, like what would normally be exhaustion. So there’s a dissociative aspect to, to threat in our, in our legs, the extend extended part of our family, our, our body. And by taking that,
[00:33:35] and it’s a pause, it’s a powerful pause, there’s a lot of energy savvy in taking that pause. Less of our Q is going to threat and more of it can go toward resilience, responsiveness, resource.
[00:33:51] Lynda: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:58] Rick: That practice,
[00:34:03] the more I do that practice my daughter’s upset about something. She’s in the slamming doors phase. Having this is my fourth child who I’ve witnessed through the slamming door phase. So it, it’s a thing as an auditory sensitive person, it’s not my feet at the time. And I notice that my first reaction when the door slams is a kind of fight.
[00:34:32] I must stop this from ever happening again. And if I feel my feet, which my AI reminded me, um, feel my feet hand on my heart. Slow breath, exhale a little longer, maybe a sigh. Can’t believe it. Oh.
[00:35:01] There’s, there’s some other things that light up. I have an emotionally powerful and expressive and unsuppressed daughter. Mm-hmm. I don’t actually want a doormat. She’s not doormat. No, she’s not a doormat. Oh. I can be in, look at me fourth time through. I’ve got more capacity to, to allow that as an un artful loud and wish it was different kind of expression.
[00:35:44] And
[00:35:50] I, I like that. Being present with my family, even though I know if I go over and I try to knock on the door, I will hear the most amazing guttural, grunt go away noise. I really should record it, but in the interest of privacy and not embarrassing her, um, years from now, black, maybe I should record right.
[00:36:20] Um, but what I can do is I, I, there’s a part of me that doesn’t want to get exhausted doing this, but there’s a part of me that appreciates that I can hold a space, a we space for my family, where dysregulation is a reality, along with the uncertainty. I don’t know how to fix it. I’m really skilled at this stuff.
[00:36:45] I’ve been practicing it for 30 years. I do not know how. I know how to make it worse,
[00:36:53] Cathy: but I wonder if part of your job is to not fix it, to let her have the experience of being frustrated and work through. I think often when we’re very capable people, we wanna fix something versus like, oh, they’re learning from this experience.
[00:37:07] They’re having their own experience. It’s impinging on my noise level and my brain thinks that I should fix it, but it’s not anything for me to fix. It is their life experience, them exploring their world,
[00:37:20] Rick: and if I’m present with it long enough and I go a bit deeper then and deeper in presence really is a sensation for me of like deepening like my you.
[00:37:37] You feel like, oh, okay. Is there something that is being called forth? And what I’ve noticed is. It takes a certain amount of courage for me to go and reach out to her. But the courage rises naturally when it’s time for me to do that.
[00:38:04] And that’s the kind of subtle energy savvy that presence allows me to feel. Not when she’s going to accept me. That doesn’t take any courage. If I knew a hundred percent sure that it’s time, but there’s a rightness and like, oh, is there anything I can do for you? I’m, I’ll be in the other room if you need me, if you want, if you wanna reconnect or something, something will come out of my mouth because I’m present.
[00:38:40] And the other night I was, uh. She ran upstairs, slammed the door to her room, and
[00:38:53] her noises made me less present. But then I knew my job was my, my intention was to go be present a little deeper, and I just kind of hung around in the, in the hallway, not really waiting for her, but just holding space, kind of unwinding the tension that naturally rises in my body. And then there was a, a really palpable feeling of go in, offer a book.
[00:39:23] Hmm. Would you like to read a book together? Hmm. Hmm. Yes. This one.
[00:39:32] Cathy: Okay.
[00:39:34] Rick: Doesn’t always work that way, but being present now means that if I’m not present. That whole dance becomes a trauma that I’m going to be processing later that evening after everyone goes to bed. I know my nervous system. I know myself if it’s traumatic to hear and feel the energy banging at me, which it is, but my reaction is, okay, this is, this is not life or death.
[00:40:05] That is not the sound of her falling down the stairs. Right. That’s the sound of her being in distress. What can I do with that? No, I can, I can be more present. It’s not, you know, and, and this spot behind the back of the head can be a place where you’re just cradling your primitive brain and say, yeah, that, yeah.
[00:40:30] It’s, it’s how she processes certain feelings and, uh, hasn’t been that long since I did it. Yeah. And, uh, ugh.
[00:40:49] And that’s where, again, I, I know I’m repeating it, but this is a concept that I, there’s still an ongoing situation, which I really wish was not happening. There’s uncertainty about what to do, if anything, um, how she’s feeling. I know she’s upset, but I don’t even know about what, maybe she doesn’t even know about what, and there’s a quality of, I, like there’s a, there’s a quality of.
[00:41:20] The difference between I must have done something wrong or I I must not have trained her right. Or I must set, you know, those are all thoughts. Something’s wrong here. Versus, you know, I, I like, I’m not overreacting here. I’m, I’m, I’m appreciating at least for this round right this minute, I am, I’m not in knee-jerk reaction.
[00:41:41] Mm-hmm. And if you want to be growing and thriving, that’s an opportunity when you’re present with it to nourish that part of you. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense.
[00:41:52] Cathy: Yeah. I think there’s a lot of like, of meeting the chat and people, there’s a lot of judgment. I wish I, I am a door slammer and I wish I wasn’t. You wish a deer wasn’t a door slammer?
[00:42:01] Like we have a lot of judgments. Like, oh, I don’t like that about that person, or, I don’t like that about me. And someone shared, uh, the challenge. I thought it was really important to talk a little bit more. The person said the challenge and the uncertainty that came up. And from the moment, that moment of being present and asking my body what it, what it needs is a deeper, not enough, not capable, uh, thought.
[00:42:25] That’s not a feeling. It’s a thought, it’s a judgment. So there are three ways we avoid things. Like in, in one perspective, we get into the future and we get anxious. We go in the past and we ruminate about what happened or what we wish different or we judge things in the present. So if I am the, it’s not a feeling to feel not capable or, or not enough.
[00:42:48] It’s a thought. We may feel uncertain, we may feel scared. We may feel things like that, but we label it, I’m not enough. We label it. I’m not capable, or I’m a, I shouldn’t be a door slammer or a dear, shouldn’t be a door slammer. Um, those are thoughts, not feelings. And we use our thoughts there. There’s nothing wrong with thoughts.
[00:43:10] We have them, but we often use them to escape the actual feeling and, and going a little bit deeper and being with the feeling that’s there. Um, 'cause feeling, um, not feeling safe, not feeling, um, capable. Like feeling, feeling scared. That’s, that’s not, we don’t wanna feel that. We wanna avoid that. So the blame at ourselves or other people or the world, like it should not be this way.
[00:43:35] Well, guess what? It is this way. It sucks sometimes, but it is this way. Can I be with the feelings I have and just honor them for this moment? And then maybe I, I’ll have more presence like Rick did to let go. How do I wanna try to make the next moment better? So I just think it’s really important to make sure that we, the more we can in differentiate the thoughts and the judgements we have versus what is my actual experience in this moment.
[00:44:04] If I try to be present with myself, I might feel really uncertain and scared. I might feel that way and I don’t want to feel that. So, um, can we just do a little tapping on, I don’t wanna feel that because I think that’s kind of the core of what’s going on here. I
[00:44:18] Rick: don’t wanna feel that. So I judge myself
[00:44:21] Cathy: Karate Chop:, even though there’s feelings going on,
[00:44:24] Rick: even though there are feelings going on
[00:44:26] Cathy: right in this moment,
[00:44:28] Rick: right in this moment.
[00:44:29] Cathy: And I do not want to feel them,
[00:44:31] Rick: and I do not want to feel them.
[00:44:33] Cathy: I wanna run away so hard.
[00:44:36] Rick: I wanna want, I want to run away so hard.
[00:44:39] Cathy: There’s some good ways to do that.
[00:44:42] Rick: And there are some good ways to do that.
[00:44:44] Cathy: I’m gonna judge the hell outta myself.
[00:44:47] Rick: I’m gonna judge the hell outta myself,
[00:44:49] Cathy: Top of the Head:. I’m gonna judge the hell outta them.
[00:44:52] Rick: I’m gonna judge the hell out of them.
[00:44:54] Cathy: I bro, I’m gonna judge the things that are happening around me.
[00:44:57] Rick: I’m gonna judge the things around me that are happening
[00:45:00] Cathy: side of the I. I’m gonna worry about the future.
[00:45:04] Rick: I’m gonna worry about the future
[00:45:05] Cathy: Under the Eye:. I’m gonna be frustrated about the past.
[00:45:10] Rick: You’re gonna be frustrated about the past,
[00:45:12] Cathy: and then those, that way I don’t have to actually feel what’s happening right now.
[00:45:18] Rick: That way I do not have to feel what’s happening right now.
[00:45:22] Cathy: Shannon. That feels too tender.
[00:45:24] Rick: It feels too tender, too intense color.
[00:45:27] Cathy: Yeah, Collarbone:. It’s really frightening to feel what’s happening right now.
[00:45:32] Rick: It’s really frightening to feel what’s happening right now
[00:45:36] Cathy: Under the Arm:, but that’s actually where I live,
[00:45:39] Rick: but that’s actually where I live.
[00:45:41] Cathy: Top of the Head:. It’s the core of who I am.
[00:45:44] Rick: It’s the core of who I am.
[00:45:46] Cathy: I wonder if I could maybe try to be present a little bit with that.
[00:45:50] Rick: I wonder if I could maybe try to be present a little bit with that
[00:45:54] Cathy: and see who I am
[00:45:56] Rick: and see who I am.
[00:45:58] Cathy: Just invite you to take a breath. One of the things I’m discovering as I do this is I had very fixed ideas of who I was and how I should behave.
[00:46:08] And as I’m just getting more curious, I start feeling guilty. I’m like, oh, there’s something I’m desiring that I think I don’t shouldn’t have. What is it? Oh, I wanna go sit in the backyard. Why is that bad? It’s not. I’m just start getting curious and like, why can’t I have that? Who am I actually versus who do I, who did?
[00:46:24] Who did I decide? I was all those years ago, and I’m kind of keeping myself in that little corral.
[00:46:32] Rick: We
[00:46:36] so people that have a hard time with uncertainty. Tend to leap to things like, well, I’m not good enough, I’m not capable.
[00:46:47] Lynda: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:49] Rick: And that’s not to pick on it. I’m right. Like that’s why I needed tapping because there were pathways that it’s my fault was my, I’m with this uncomfortable feeling, that must be my fault.
[00:47:12] There’s relief in that. And if we acknowledge, oh yeah. Oh, I’m just not capable. Okay, I’m not capable, even though I’m not capable,
[00:47:23] Cathy: even though I’m not capable.
[00:47:26] Rick: And that doesn’t feel good
[00:47:27] Cathy: and that doesn’t feel good,
[00:47:29] Rick: but it feels so certain. Thank goodness, I
[00:47:31] Cathy: feel so certain.
[00:47:32] Rick: I am not capable.
[00:47:34] Cathy: I am not capable.
[00:47:37] Rick: Ah. Finally some certainty.
[00:47:39] Cathy: Finally some certainty. Someone to blame,
[00:47:42] Rick: oh, I can just be not capable.
[00:47:44] Cathy: I can just be not capable.
[00:47:47] Rick: Yeah. Or it be my fault.
[00:47:51] Cathy: Or It can be my fault.
[00:47:53] Rick: I’m certain it must be my fault.
[00:47:54] Cathy: I am certain it must be my fault.
[00:47:57] Rick: My fault. It’s my fault.
[00:47:59] Cathy: It’s my fault.
[00:48:00] Rick: So much certainty there.
[00:48:02] Cathy: So much certainty there.
[00:48:04] Rick: But that’s a shortcut.
[00:48:05] Cathy: That is a shortcut.
[00:48:08] Rick: False certainty.
[00:48:09] Cathy: False certainty,
[00:48:11] Rick: and it cuts off, cuts me off from thriving.
[00:48:13] Cathy: It does cut me off from thriving,
[00:48:15] Rick: and thriving matters to me,
[00:48:17] Cathy: and thriving matters to me.
[00:48:20] Rick: I wonder what other ways I could look at this.
[00:48:23] Cathy: I wonder what other ways I could look at this.
[00:48:31] Rick: If I started with an assumption that there’s some truth,
[00:48:34] Cathy: if I started with the assumption that there’s some truth,
[00:48:40] Rick: what else is there?
[00:48:41] Cathy: What else is there?
[00:48:44] Rick: And we’re gonna take a break, um, in a minute, but I want to take these two because they’re, they’re so common. It’s like, um,
[00:48:53] I’m not enough as a shortcut. It kind of, it stops things, right? It’s like I’m not enough
[00:49:06] in emotional freedom work. You might tap on even though I’m not enough. Just like we did that and then ask to do what or to be what.
[00:49:16] Cathy: Yeah. Be specific.
[00:49:18] Rick: I’m, I’m not enough to hold all of the trauma of all of my loved ones and make it better.
[00:49:27] I dunno anyone who is I’m, and that fits not capable either, right? Like, as skilled as I am, I’m not capable of that. So if I am,
[00:49:43] if I’m listening to my buddy recount all the things that are going on in his, in his family’s life, and I’m noticing myself moving away from being present with him,
[00:50:02] another flavor of that is there’s nothing I can do. I feel helpless if I’m, I could just say, well, I’m just, I must not be good enough. You’re
[00:50:15] Cathy: also telling yourself that you have to fix it, versus can I just be here and witness this and take care of myself as well?
[00:50:21] Rick: Well, right. Like, so that goes to the cups of being present.
[00:50:24] And as I found myself kind of moving away from the hardship that he was feeling coming back into present, and the simplicity that comes with being present, it doesn’t just like uncertainty. It’s not easy, but there’s a simplicity to being present. Like, oh, I can be present with this.
[00:50:48] Lynda: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:50] Rick: And if I don’t shortcut it,
[00:50:58] what happens? If I don’t have the certainty that I’m not good enough? Well, I might, I might have some things that I can offer.
[00:51:09] Cathy: But I think being specific around that is very, what am I not good enough at? Because a lot of us, just myself included blanket statement and it’s like there’s no way to fight it.
[00:51:19] It’s like, oh, it’s just a statement
[00:51:21] Rick: versus, and that and that. It takes us out of presence for sure. If you have your own favorite negative statement mm-hmm. Um, and you use it, it’s like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, that’s my shortcut. I’m shortcutting to what? It gives me a sense of certainty. It kind of releases my engagement.
[00:51:45] No, I just can’t do that. But it could be an invitation to like enjoy what your next Yes. Is the micro, yes, the micro step. It could be an opportunity to be like, yeah, I am wise enough to know that I am not actually capable. Of the grand solution that my primitive brain would like in order to make the world more certain and beautiful.
[00:52:15] Cathy: We wanna be magical and great fix everything.
[00:52:17] Rick: Yeah. And you know what? I’m gonna fix something special for me and my, my daughter to share today. Something that I’m gonna, I’m gonna stir in some love 'cause I have that. Like you can find things that like, well, am I not capable of having a love at times for the people I care about?
[00:52:44] Start softening that pathway and coming into presence.
[00:52:49] Cathy: I wanted just, someone asked a question is, how can I be with feelings if I believe that they will destroy me? It’s not, it’s not true. The problem is when we were little, often these feelings felt so powerful and so overwhelming, and when we were little, they could destroy us.
[00:53:04] They were too much for us. We didn’t have the experience or the skills or the capacity to deal with them. So I think it’s important to acknowledge that, hey, I was really smart when I was little. I knew this would be too much. I knew it would destroy me. And now I can, I’m in a different space and I can get some support.
[00:53:22] I can get coaching, I can whatever. I love going. I have a coach, a therapist I work with, and I’ll go and say, I’m having trouble facing this feeling. And he’ll literally set, he’s like, how many seconds do you want? And I’m like, let’s try 10. He’s like, okay, I want you to step in. I tell him when I start, he counts the seconds on a stopwatch.
[00:53:40] He says, now step out. Um, and so, and sometimes I can’t make it. I’m like, oh, we’re stopping now. But these little micro experiences, when you have support, help your rewire, they help rewire, oh, I thought I would die. It felt terrible. But I’ve been really amazed at how quickly I grow into it. Like sometimes I can only do a second and then the next time I can do two.
[00:54:01] And then it’s like, I’m never gonna get through this. So okay, I can do five, and then all of a sudden I’m like, oh wait, I did two minutes. I had support. And now, okay, now I’m home alone. Can I do one second again? Like, and, but we, it’s a baby step forward. We have to rewire those path patterns and those beliefs.
[00:54:20] Um, and you can just practice gently and I, or encourage you get support if that It’s hard to dissolve trauma by yourself. Mm-hmm. It’s really useful to do it with other people.
[00:54:33] Rick: We so appreciate you being here. We’re gonna take a seven minute break. Um, give ourselves a chance to be on the UN in the uncertainty of what we’re going to do for the next seven minutes. Um, and so we’re gonna go ahead and pause. Sounds good. Welcome back. Uh, let’s take a breath and noticing your breathing.
[00:55:00] If you can add one awareness could be the sound of your breath,
[00:55:12] could be how the muscles move in your body on the inhale and the exhale kinesthetic.
[00:55:34] How it feels. If you have your hand on your chest, how does it feel to your hand to be aware of your breath?
[00:55:47] Cathy: And if you’re feeling anxiety or feeling like you wanna rush through this, notice that there’s nothing wrong with having those feelings or just be aware of them when we fight them and give them more energy. Actually just noticed, oh, I’m really hoping I can rush through this experience. Or I’m feeling anxious about doing it right.
[00:56:04] I’m just, oh, I’m noticing that it’s okay too. It’s just part of who, your experience in this current moment.
[00:56:12] Rick: Yeah. We have a participant that would like to join us and do some tapping and exploration. Um, ask to unmute. There we go. Can you hear me okay? Yeah. Hi, Linda, do you have a preference whether you focus with Cathy or myself?
[00:56:32] Lynda: Um, surprise me. Okay. Uncertainty.
[00:56:35] Cathy: That’s lovely.
[00:56:38] Rick: Uh, Cathy,
[00:56:41] Cathy: um, so Linda, would you, can you share a little more about what’s coming up for you around this? I mean, everyone has very unique experiences, but they’re all general to all of us too.
[00:56:51] Lynda: Right. So I practice presence daily, multiple times a day. And it involves breathing into my feelings because feelings were completely forbidden when I was growing up.
[00:57:03] So that is how I, and, and it’s a great practice. And then there’s a chain of events that I’m starting to understand a bit that leads to me no longer being able to feel mm-hmm. Or access my feelings because I shut down. And the chain of events seems to be something like this. I compare myself to others.
[00:57:23] Uh, it’s Canadian Thanksgiving, so now it’s. Families that are geographically more close and might even be functional. Um, I compare myself and then I judge myself. And then this new feeling, I’m only starting to recognize, uh, which I, which has been my power feeling for shutting down and for safety is shame.
[00:57:46] Hmm. And I think that comes from the self-judgment. I feel shame. And the shame is a short circuit because then I feel shame about the shame. Mm-hmm. And the real challenge is, I can’t tell for a while. I don’t know what I don’t know. I, the lag time between when I, my breathing gets restricted and I can’t feel my feelings.
[00:58:12] I just, I, I’m tight. I brace against feelings too. That’s part of my. What I learned. So I, I think I even physically restrict my breathing and, and I don’t even know that I’m doing it for a while until, and then so recognizing it and, and getting past it are my challenges.
[00:58:32] Cathy: Okay, well first of all, I wanna congratulate you on noticing it 'cause that tape you practiced enough that you’re, you’re present enough to notice it.
[00:58:39] There’s a lot of people that wouldn’t even notice, have this awareness of the pattern. So, congratulations.
[00:58:45] Lynda: Thank you, but there is a lag time before I figure it out
[00:58:48] Cathy: there. There always is. Rick and I talk about it’s just shortening the lag time. We all have it. Okay. It’s like, how quickly can I notice? And that takes practice.
[00:58:57] So the very fact you’re recognizing it means you actually have a conscious basis on it. Often when these things first come up, we don’t even notice what’s happening. We’re just like, I am freaked out. I should never do this again because obviously it’s bad 'cause I freaked out. You’ve done it, you’ve persevered enough.
[00:59:12] Your courage has helped you get this awareness. So if you can just kinda let in that you’re, you’ve made progress that some people never get to.
[00:59:21] Lynda: Thank you.
[00:59:22] Cathy: A lot of people run away when the fir like that constricted breathing is terrifying feeling. It’s like, how am I not getting enough air? What’s happening?
[00:59:30] Um, so like you didn’t run away. You kept showing up for yourself. So congratulations. That’s beautiful.
[00:59:36] Lynda: Thank you.
[00:59:38] Cathy: Okay. Um, and it sounds like your family of origin might have been somewhat toxic. Is that correct?
[00:59:44] Lynda: Somewhat. Yes. Which is very, very toxic. Yes. As far as emotions and being able to be present, it wasn’t safe to be present.
[00:59:57] Cathy: So when you were younger, it wasn’t safe. You were really smart to repress these feelings. Probably. I mean, if we’re in a war zone, we don’t sit down and meditate. We are like alert and paying attention to everything and like, you know, trying to hide and everything. So in a toxic family you did something very, very smart.
[01:00:18] And the problem is that your nervous system hasn’t really been upgraded since then. Yeah. It still thinks that you’re in the war zone, which is very common. It’s what happens to humans. Can you think of a time when you were little, when you really were clear it wasn’t safe to feel those feelings?
[01:00:37] Lynda: Yes.
[01:00:41] Um, do you want me to say what it was or,
[01:00:44] Cathy: um, you, you, you can, but you just like, can you identify the age about what age you were?
[01:00:51] Lynda: I just can really clearly remember understanding that it was wrong. I was, I was wrong because I had feelings. I wasn’t supposed to have them. Yeah. And so I was completely wrong.
[01:01:05] You know that definition of self-esteem being that you’re fit for life. I wasn’t fit for life because I had feelings and I wasn’t supposed to have them.
[01:01:15] Cathy: How about old were you, can you roughly,
[01:01:18] Lynda: I’m gonna say, um, tween. Maybe between. Okay.
[01:01:24] Cathy: Okay. So can you just imagine that little girl that you’re here as an adult who’s supported by the circle.
[01:01:31] Imagine that you could go back in time and see that, that tween age, um, who is really struggling with this, like, I am not fit for life. That feeling is, it’s a, it’s an intense feeling. Can you imagine being there with her and saying, Hey sweetheart, I’m here with you. Can I give you some insights? Can we, can we do a little silly thing called tapping together?
[01:01:56] Lynda: Yeah. I got my arm around her. I’m behind her.
[01:01:59] Cathy: Love it. All right. So I’d love, if it feels okay to you, I’d love for you to tap on yourself now as the adult and imagine that you’re tapping on that younger self or she can tap on herself, but we’re doing a parallel at the same time in her tap, inner her tapping.
[01:02:17] So, and you’re welcome to change the words as you like. Okay. You’re the boss. So Karate Chop:. Hey sweetheart.
[01:02:24] Lynda: Hey sweetheart.
[01:02:25] Cathy: I know this is so tough.
[01:02:27] Lynda: I know. This is so tough
[01:02:29] Cathy: and I’m so sorry.
[01:02:33] Lynda: I’m so sorry.
[01:02:35] Cathy: I want you to know that you are doing an awesome job of surviving.
[01:02:39] Lynda: I want you to know you are doing an awesome job of surviving.
[01:02:43] Cathy: A lot of people would’ve cracked.
[01:02:46] Lynda: A lot of people would’ve cracked and given up.
[01:02:49] Cathy: Yeah. And you figured out a way to get through
[01:02:52] Lynda: and you figured out a way to get through
[01:02:55] Cathy: Top of the Head:. It’s a really tough path.
[01:02:58] Lynda: It was a really tough path.
[01:03:00] Cathy: Eyebrow:. You had to decide you weren’t worth surviving.
[01:03:05] Lynda: You had to decide you weren’t worth survival
[01:03:08] Cathy: side of that, that those feelings were illegal,
[01:03:12] Lynda: that the feelings were illegal or wrong under,
[01:03:15] Cathy: yeah, Under the Eye:.
[01:03:16] That tells you how tough this environment is. It
[01:03:20] Lynda: tells you how tough the environment was
[01:03:23] Cathy: Under the Nose:. You’re really brilliant.
[01:03:26] Lynda: You’re really brilliant.
[01:03:28] Cathy: And Chin:, you figured out a way when no one else could figure out a way.
[01:03:32] Lynda: You figured out a way when no one else was figuring out a way Collarbone:, and I’m so glad you survived and I’m so glad you survived
[01:03:42] Cathy: Under the Arm:.
[01:03:43] It’s been a tough path though.
[01:03:46] Lynda: It has been a tough path though.
[01:03:48] Cathy: Top of that, and I have such good news for you
[01:03:51] Lynda: and I have such good news for you.
[01:03:54] Cathy: I vow you are so courageous.
[01:03:57] Lynda: You are so courageous. Creative
[01:03:59] Cathy: Side of the Eye:. Yeah. Side of the Eye: and cr. And creative.
[01:04:03] Lynda: And creative.
[01:04:04] Cathy: Under the Eye: that we made it through.
[01:04:07] Lynda: We made it through
[01:04:08] Cathy: Under the Nose: and we do not live in that toxic environment, all that anymore.
[01:04:13] Lynda: And we do not live in that toxic environment at all.
[01:04:16] Cathy: Chin:, you’re holding on really tight to these
[01:04:19] Lynda: principles. You’re holding on really tight to these principles
[01:04:23] Cathy: collar. When they meant your survival back then
[01:04:27] Lynda: they meant your survival back then
[01:04:29] Cathy: Under the Arm:.
[01:04:30] But we don’t have to hold onto them so tight anymore,
[01:04:33] Lynda: but we don’t have to hold onto them so tight anymore.
[01:04:36] Cathy: Top of the Head:, we can actually look at the toxic environment.
[01:04:40] Lynda: We can actually look at the toxic environment
[01:04:44] Cathy: Eyebrow: and realize that we had to tell stories to get through
[01:04:49] Lynda: and realize we had to tell stories to get through
[01:04:52] Cathy: Side of the Eye:.
[01:04:54] What if we are worthwhile?
[01:04:57] Lynda: What if we are worthwhile
[01:04:59] Cathy: Under the Eye:? What if our feelings are really okay?
[01:05:03] Lynda: What if our feelings are really okay
[01:05:06] Cathy: Under the Nose:? That’s really curious to me.
[01:05:10] Lynda: That’s really curious to me. Chin:, I’m curious what you think about that. Curious what you think about that,
[01:05:19] Cathy: Collarbone:.
[01:05:20] Would you be willing to give it a try?
[01:05:22] Lynda: Would you be willing to give it a try?
[01:05:26] Cathy: How does that feel to you? How does that feel to you? Just take a breath and just be with her. See if you can be curious and not decide for her what she’s feeling.
[01:05:42] Whatcha noticing?
[01:05:48] Lynda: Well, shutting down emotionally was the only, the only path she could see. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. The only safe path. Um, and shame is such a, like, I, I’m in my sixties, I’m only starting to learn. About it as an emotion. Yeah. Um, it’s such a powerful, strong thing. So when you were talking about the emotions, um, I think that’s the one that’s the hardest to accept.
[01:06:22] That shame has a purpose. That shame is, is okay. Um, that it’s okay to feel it.
[01:06:31] Cathy: I’m curious. Could It absolutely is. And I think it was a very effective method of shutting down things. 'cause if we have shame, we shut down. Can you ask her if some of that shame belonged to your, the family, not to you?
[01:06:55] Lynda: Well, I, I don’t know. And she doesn’t know. Okay.
[01:07:03] I would, I personally want to be able to welcome every feeling. Mm-hmm. And I think it’s the ones that I, I, I just don’t feel safe, welcoming or just have too much judgment attached to them that are part of the shutdown. Mm-hmm.
[01:07:22] Cathy: I, my, my thought is, and you can I invite you to try it on and get, take what you like.
[01:07:27] I, I do this for myself sometimes too. If you, it’s an, just as an example, if you’re ever at a restaurant with someone who’s really drunk or loud or obnoxious and they’re not feeling shame, if you watch other people at other tables will get kind of embarrassed or red or like, they’ll, they’ll ugh. So if that person that’s creating the shameful scenario doesn’t accept the shame or blame other people, take it on.
[01:07:51] Right. And I’m wondering if part of the reason that it’s so hard for you to be with the shame is because your body knows, not all of it’s yours.
[01:08:02] Lynda: I know that I’m the only one who’s found a pathway, really found a pathway back to their emotions in my family.
[01:08:10] Cathy: Yeah.
[01:08:11] Lynda: Yeah. So, and I know one of my sisters is really back where I was when I was in my twenties, and she’s older than I am, so I.
[01:08:23] I, I’m sorry if I, I can’t, I’m having difficulty. Yeah. Answering your question, I think. No,
[01:08:30] Cathy: it’s, no, I just wanted to put that thought out there. You can try it on. There’s no, like, this must be right. Um, I was just curious 'cause there really wasn’t, you feel shame and that’s very common for people that grow up in toxic families.
[01:08:45] It’s very common. But I don’t hear anything that you did that you were taught to be ashamed of yourself and you used that shame to shut yourself down. I think very smart. You had a lot of it. Why not use the resources that are there, but now, now you’re having trouble feeling the shame. Do you wanna just do a little tapping with her on that?
[01:09:07] Lynda: Can I, can, can I say I just, it occurred to me that the thing that I feel the shame is tied to is the, the place where I am unlike the rest of my family. Mm-hmm. Who will. Are all coupled off, for example, regardless of the cost of that coupling, like they will stay coupled regardless how unhappy it makes them, for example.
[01:09:26] So I’m the only one who is chart charting their own path. Yeah. I’m enjoying being not with the person, for example, for a period of time and so on. I don’t, I don’t know if that’s
[01:09:37] Cathy: So you feel shame about that, that you’re different?
[01:09:40] Lynda: Yeah, because I didn’t fit into the family, um, as, as a kid. Mm-hmm. Because I had feelings.
[01:09:50] Yeah. And so now it’s those points. I, I look for the points where I’m different, I guess.
[01:09:56] Cathy: Mm-hmm. Can we do a little tapping and you, again, you can change the words or tell me if it’s not landing. And I invite you too, to invite this little, this younger self to tap along too. Even though I feel a lot of shame, even though
[01:10:09] Lynda: I feel a lot of shame,
[01:10:10] Cathy: I think I should be like them.
[01:10:16] Lynda: I don’t know if I can say that
[01:10:18] Cathy: part of me. Does part of you think I should be like them?
[01:10:21] Lynda: Um, I guess the be like the better parts of Yeah. The way they are.
[01:10:28] Cathy: Yeah. I feel shame because part of me thinks I should be like them. Part of me thinks I should be like them. And that’s a survival mechanism
[01:10:36] Lynda: and that’s a survival mechanism.
[01:10:39] Cathy: We align to our families so that they care about us,
[01:10:43] Lynda: we align to our families so that they care about us and we feel safe.
[01:10:47] Cathy: Yeah. And healthy families, there’s room to have differences.
[01:10:51] Lynda: Healthy family, there’s room to have differences
[01:10:53] Cathy: in toxic families. There is no room for that
[01:10:56] Lynda: in toxic families. There’s no room for that top that I was taught to be ashamed for my differences.
[01:11:01] I was taught to feel ashamed of my differences.
[01:11:05] Cathy: I brow they’re, those differences are really my superpower.
[01:11:09] Lynda: I actually believe that. My differences are my superpower
[01:11:13] Cathy: Side of the Eye:, but part of me adopted the shame they taught me,
[01:11:18] Lynda: but part of me adopted the shame they taught me. For sure.
[01:11:21] Cathy: Under the Eye:.
[01:11:22] It’s really hard to be present with that shame.
[01:11:24] Lynda: It is very hard to be present with that shame
[01:11:27] Cathy: Under the Nose:. I wonder what lessons are underneath the shame.
[01:11:32] Lynda: I wonder what lessons are under that Shame
[01:11:35] Cathy: Chin:. I wonder if this tween age can help me with that.
[01:11:39] Lynda: I wonder if this tween age can help me with that.
[01:11:41] Cathy: Collarbone: cheese are really clever.
[01:11:44] Lynda: She is a smart cookie
[01:11:47] Cathy: Under the Arm:. I was taught to feel ashamed for being different. I
[01:11:51] Lynda: was taught to feel ashamed for being different
[01:11:54] Cathy: Top of the Head:, but actually kind of celebrate it too.
[01:11:57] Lynda: But I do. I do absolutely celebrate it as well.
[01:12:01] Cathy: And just take a breath and see if you can imagine just enjoying the fact that you’re different without having to feel so much shame.
[01:12:14] Lynda: I mean, I, I do often feel, I do often do that. Yeah.
[01:12:18] Cathy: Good. And it’s not a demand on my part, it’s just like wondering what that would feel like for you. Yeah. Um, and if you’re able to feel that sometimes, that’s great.
[01:12:27] Lynda: Yeah. Okay. 90% of the time, I, I go along and it’s all great, and then this stuff comes in. Yeah.
[01:12:37] Cathy: So I am wondering if you can be curious. I, I imagine, and many of us do this, we have scripts about feelings and the pathways, when they’re really heavily used, they become myelinated, which is like super highways. They happen so fast, we don’t even realize the thought patterns. So I imagine when you feel shame, I’m guessing there’s a, a loop that’s happening that you, that’s hap and if you can even just for a couple seconds, be with the shame and be like, curious about the thoughts that are going through your head.
[01:13:07] And once you start getting some conscious thoughts so you can grab them, you get a lot more power over them. Often they’re ridiculous. We’d be like, no, I would never think this if I was slow, if I could capture the thought it was as it was happening. So I’m curious if that might work.
[01:13:24] Lynda: Yeah. I, I. For other feel, maybe it’s partly because the shame is new for me to even recognize it all, but I almost feel like I go into fight or flight or freeze almost immediately, and so the fog just comes in right away.
[01:13:39] Cathy: That’s very common, and if you’re having the restricted breathing that matches with the fight or flight, like wanting to run, wanting to escape.
[01:13:46] Lynda: So it’s maybe, maybe part of it that this, this, this particular emotion is new for me to deal with. It definitely
[01:13:51] Cathy: we build up tolerance and skill with something when we’re allowed to feel it more.
[01:13:55] Can we just do a tapping round on that and Absolutely Karate, Chop:, even though I get this restricted breathing,
[01:14:03] Lynda: even though I get this restricted breathing,
[01:14:05] Cathy: when I try to feel this feeling,
[01:14:07] Lynda: when I try to feel this feeling,
[01:14:08] Cathy: I still love and accept myself.
[01:14:11] Lynda: I still love and accept myself,
[01:14:13] Cathy: even though I kind of judge myself for getting this restricted breathing,
[01:14:16] Lynda: even though I absolutely myself for having restricted breathing.
[01:14:21] Cathy: And that probably doesn’t help me feel less, uh, afraid.
[01:14:26] Lynda: That doesn’t help me.
[01:14:28] Cathy: I still wanna love and accept myself when I have these feelings.
[01:14:31] Lynda: I still wanna love and accept myself when I have these feelings.
[01:14:34] Cathy: Top of that, I have really good reasons to have these feelings.
[01:14:38] Lynda: I have really good reasons to have these feelings.
[01:14:41] Cathy: I bro, no wonder I want to flee or fight.
[01:14:44] Lynda: No wonder why I want to flee or fight
[01:14:47] Cathy: sad. My body’s trying to help me do that.
[01:14:50] Lynda: My body is trying to accelerate the process.
[01:14:54] Cathy: Yeah, and I thank you so much, Bodi.
[01:14:56] Lynda: Thank you Bodi, for keeping me safe in your way
[01:15:00] Cathy: Under the Nose:. I hate that you do it.
[01:15:03] Lynda: It’s not helpful, but,
[01:15:05] Cathy: but I understand the intention is good.
[01:15:08] But I understand the intention is
[01:15:10] Lynda: good
[01:15:10] Cathy: Collarbone:, and I’m willing to be with these feelings,
[01:15:15] Lynda: and I’m willing to be with these feelings
[01:15:17] Cathy: under there. I’m a little at a time,
[01:15:20] Lynda: I little at a time,
[01:15:22] Cathy: Top of the Head:. I’ve worked through worse things.
[01:15:25] Lynda: I worked through much worse things,
[01:15:27] Cathy: and I’m gonna be okay.
[01:15:29] Lynda: I’m gonna be okay.
[01:15:31] Cathy: Just take a breath.
[01:15:35] Lynda: Whatcha noticing there? Oh, it feels really hopeful. Like, yeah. I, I really want to appreciate the power behind, the reason, behind the power, behind the reason behind the shame and, and the energy behind it and all of that. Be able to do what I do with other feelings, which is feel them and, and watch them move on.
[01:16:01] Mm-hmm. And to have hope that I can do that with such a big, powerful emotion is really, is really great.
[01:16:07] Cathy: Think of the muscles you’ll have after you keep working on this.
[01:16:11] Lynda: Yeah, and
[01:16:12] Cathy: I think if you invite that teenager into, into this, when you do it, that can give you access to your subconscious and it can give you a lot of power because that part of you is like the a, a nexus node when something was decided.
[01:16:25] There’s a lot of power there. So if when you’re meditating or being present with the shame, you can invite her to help you. I think you’ll find that one, it keeps you in the, it keeps the adult and the child part separate so you have a little more adult power and it gives you more direct access to your subconscious that’s working on this.
[01:16:43] So it, I’m curious if that might help you some.
[01:16:47] Lynda: Yeah, I really wanna try that.
[01:16:49] Cathy: Great.
[01:16:50] Lynda: Nice work. Thank you
[01:16:51] Cathy: so much for sharing this, sharing this.
[01:16:53] Lynda: Thank you so much for taking me through that.
[01:16:56] Cathy: Yeah, please be gentle with yourself. This is a lot of work, really deep work. So drink some water, get some rest afterwards.
[01:17:03] Lynda: Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you.
[01:17:08] Rick: Hmm. Thank you Linda. Thank you, Cathy. And you know, I so appreciate this ex this opportunity to, to recognize and honor that when we start with presence practice, there are things that are, um, they’re easier for us. Um, and then sometimes those easy things. It’s really helpful as a skill to go back to, for me, when I was learning to be with my senses, what was going on inside of me, uh, my teacher suggested.
[01:17:55] Mindful eating.
[01:17:56] Cathy: Mm-hmm.
[01:17:59] Rick: Well, the other day I was at Whole Foods, don’t have any kids with me. Bought myself a Amisu,
[01:18:09] walk outside, have my spoon. And, uh, the first three bites, I can’t actually tell you what they tasted like. You
[01:18:20] Cathy: were just like inhaling it.
[01:18:22] Rick: I was like, this is my opportunity. Like I was in for the children to teach of scarfing. And, uh, you know, when you’re about to teach a class on being present now, it was just like, hello student rick.
[01:18:41] It’s like, oh. So I, I looked at it and what was astounding is the next three bites. Had texture and hints of taste that I, I would normally have missed.
[01:19:00] Lynda: Mm-hmm.
[01:19:02] Rick: An aftertaste that I would’ve missed if I ate more than three bites all the way to the end. And guess what it was done. Mm-hmm. And I find that that’s true.
[01:19:21] If my daughter brings a book over and goes, read to me, you know, it’s like, wait a minute, where’s my respectful child? Um, it may take me a few pages to get into, like, oh, pause. Mindful presence. Really feels nice to have her leaning against me. You know, I have an adult daughter and it’s been a while since she was.
[01:19:51] You know, she was here for my birthday and we leaned against each other and brought back a lot of memories. And that’s, I believe, part of the, the real promise of presence is Yeah. Okay. So there’s going to be some of the septic or the shame or other things that will, or the judgments that just as soon as you’re in your body
[01:20:19] and there’s other things too. And so from an, from a, from an invitation standpoint, there are things that you do every day that I imagine have a lot more potential for depth or enjoyment.
[01:20:46] The shower that I took before. Before this session
[01:20:53] filled a number of different cups, the sense of luxury of having hot water. My perimeter brain really actually likes hot water that I didn’t have to build the fire to heat up. He think my perimeter brain thinks. Yeah. Got it. And um, just the feel of the soap.
[01:21:22] I remember there were times when I was mostly in stress where that kind of invitation would be like, you have, you have no clue. Rick, shut up way. I I, my younger self that I sometimes tap into really would have a very negative attitude about that invitation. Um, but he didn’t have tapping and he didn’t have me and I.
[01:21:47] Continue to go back in time and say, you know, there really isn’t a rush here. We’re allowed to be 10 minutes late for this event. It’s, it’s not a, it’s not a door of a plane that’s le that’s leaving and it’s, uh, you know, there’s flex here.
[01:22:04] Cathy: And also if I
[01:22:05] Rick: allow
[01:22:05] Cathy: presence, like I can be a little bit present, that’s still good.
[01:22:08] I don’t have to be deep in it all the time.
[01:22:11] Rick: Right. And, and the essential for me, which I continue to practice as, as, as Linda mentioned too, it’s to come back, check in and to see like, oh, this is actually cold against my fingertips. And it’s a little warm in here. The heat is up a little high. It’s like, oh.
[01:22:34] Now if I was just trying to quench my mouth because my mouth needs quenching,
[01:22:41] that’s different than, okay. My mouth needed some, some liquid.
[01:22:49] And there’s the sensation that I’m aware of now, and that’s, that’s my, my invitation. And my hope is that in our day-to-day that we find opportunities that we’re gonna be doing this anyway. What if there’s more that matters to me in this experience that if I become more present, if I’m being more present now, I’ll have access to it.
[01:23:19] It may be subtle, it may be just something you wouldn’t have noticed otherwise. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Thank you, Cathy.
[01:23:30] Cathy: I really appreciate everyone being here. Great topic. Thanks, Rick. Thanks everyone.
[01:23:34] Rick: Mm-hmm.
[01:23:37]
Let’s explore presence as a lived, practical skill—especially when uncertainty, judgment, and old wiring try to pull us out of the moment.
We notice how easily we drift—into the future with anxiety, into the past with rumination, or into judgment in the present. Discomfort shows up (boredom, anger, powerlessness, guilt), and our primitive brain hustles to keep us “safe.” That can look like doom-scrolling, certainty theater, or fighting with reality.
Let’s get honest and gentle: when we don’t want to feel something, we’ll do almost anything to not feel it. Presence starts when we catch that impulse and choose a different move.
The first reaction is allowed—it’s biology. Then we add a pause: feet on the floor, hand on heart or over the Collarbone points, and a longer exhale. In that pause we discover a surprising freedom: we don’t have to act right now. From there, we can respond rather than react.
Feelings are indicator lights. Guilt can point to desire. Uncertainty can point to “I don’t feel safe not knowing.” If we label the feeling with a verdict—I’m not enough, I’m not capable—we’re escaping the feeling itself. Let’s practice staying with the sensation and dropping the judgment.
The first reaction is allowed—it’s biology. Then we add a pause: feet on the floor, hand on heart or over the Collarbone points, and a longer exhale. In that pause we discover a surprising freedom: we don’t have to act right now. From there, we can respond rather than react.
We can build tolerance with small, safe uncertainties—simple choices, incomplete information, conversations where we listen instead of deciding. Each time we pause, we’re rewiring: less threat, more resource and responsiveness.
Notice the space that opens when “must fix” steps back.
Shame can fog the mind in seconds. Micro-exposures help—seconds of contact with the feeling, then out. With support, we stretch those seconds.
When uncertainty spikes, some of us grab self-blame for the illusion of control. Let’s notice that shortcut and choose something kinder.
Sometimes the kindest move is no move. Let’s tap with the relief—and the challenge—of pausing action while staying warmly present.
When someone slams a door (literally or emotionally), our first impulse might be control. Presence lets us feel our feet, breathe longer, and wait for the right courage—offering contact when it’s truly time. Sometimes the invite lands; sometimes it doesn’t. Presence keeps the moment from becoming a trauma replay.
Working with younger parts while tapping can be profound. Try this parallel imagining as you tap on your adult self and picture your younger self tapping, too.
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