Better Boundaries

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Susan Campbell has excellent example wording for how we can express better boundaries while honoring that we’re going to be tuning into body guidance.

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What a great reply!!!

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One of the Better Boundaries I am working on is where there is a difference in “position” around something that is loud in the world at large. I feel like I’m hitting my defensiveness (if it matters THAT much to me, which likely means my sense of safety, respect, and freedom feel threatened).

I’m just not sure… how to acknowledge. Silence is an option. Avoiding a topic is an option. Smiling and nodding is an option.

Susan Campbell seems to “speak to me” through her books that something like “I am imagining that you’re really valuing ___, ___, and ___ in this situation, and those are what feel most important. Is that true?”

…which is good, in the sense that I can reflect that I do understand what matters to them (which is not trying to argue “facts”). Like in NVC, focusing on needs rather than strategies to bring us closer.

I just can’t (right now) easily let go of my own need to be understood and validated for my own perspective when, well, we don’t see it the same way.

It’s easier also when I stay on my side of the net, to use another Susan expression. “Freedom matters to me dearly, and I acknowledge I get activated more strongly than most do around impingements of freedom.”

Anyway, felt like I needed to write this today to share with the circle. Stories and approaches welcome!

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I’m very tired and foggy today so I’m just kind of rambling…so I apologize if this is not ‘on target’.

I can feel that so strongly. I struggle with that too…lately I don’t seem to get drawn in so easily now. I decided a few days ago to stop ‘knowing things’. …I’m an expert about my opinions, my hunches and my feelings and my bodily sensations etc. but can I really say that I ‘know’ anything beyond that with certainty? I’m trying to soften my hard edges a bit.

In NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) there is the idea of ‘Chunking Up’ and ‘Chunking Down’…borrowed from the world of computer programming I think in the early ‘70’s when NLP was being developed. So Chunking Up would be moving away from the specific toward more general pieces of information or ideas…in other words ‘bigger chunks’ of data. So, in your example, ‘needs’ is a larger chunk than ‘strategies’ are. Each need could potentially be met by multiple strategies showing that a strategy is a smaller chunk than a need is. If you want to move toward agreement then you Chunk Up, as your NVC example demonstrates…‘not trying to argue “facts”’ as you say. I’m reminded of the old saying 'the devil is in the details’…to my mind that means deception, smoke screens, disagreement, contrast, contradiction, distractions, red herrings, trickery, weaponized language etc. hide in the details. Another saying from contract law and marketing, ‘the large print giveth and the small print taketh away’ implies the very same thing. When we Chunk Up we get a broader, more inclusive point of view. We see the forest and not just the trees.
In an effort to put that to use in actual living I try to remind myself that there is always a way to Chunk Up if what I want is agreement. Chunk size is always relative. Sometimes I don’t want easy agreement and I allow myself to have that experience, for better or worse. :slight_smile:

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Very useful reminder for me right now. Thank you.

Moss and trees do not thrive everywhere… and neither do I. Ok to know that…

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The other day Adira wanted to watch Cocomelon. Yes, I do measure out how much screen time feels right for her. This time, though, the “No” was for me. I’d been in front of the screen enough already that day myself. I wanted to find other ways to engage with her.

Of course, she still melted. It would have been “easy” for me to assume I was being mean to her by saying No when, yeah, I could have said yes. It was within my power to say yes.

But I couldn’t say yes without being unkind to my own nervous system.

It’s an interesting exploration of better boundaries when we COULD and it’s still not a YES.

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Yes!! This describes clearly an internal battle that I can face especially with friends. It kinda plays out like this:

“Can/could you do ‘X’ for me?”

"Yes, I can/could do ‘X’ " = (I certainly have the skill set and the means to do ‘X’…‘X’ is something I know how to do…so how can I say ‘no’ I can’t/couldn’t do ‘X’ when I know I not only could but can do ‘X’…I’d be lying if I said I can’t/couldn’t do ‘X’.) Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrgggh!!!

It’s a sort of trick question for our nervous system, isn’t it? My nervous system knows I have the skill set to do what I’ve been asked so ‘Yes’ is the obvious answer.

But what I’m ignoring is the lack of desire to do ‘X’ that my nervous system is also clearly sending me signals about…I can feel it in my gut and chest. There’s a simultaneous Yes/No signal coming from within. Confusing!!!

That, for me, is the difficult decision…how do I navigate that? Is 'just not feeling like doing ‘X’ a good enough reason to say ‘No.’?

So I have often done things for/with people with varying degrees of resentment about it…and that’s not what I want.

I’ve long thought that this predicament of ‘being of two minds’ about something (I want to and at the same time I don’t want to) is one of the more fundamental things that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom…I get the sense that bats and lions and snakes and gorillas and fruit flies and pandas never find themselves being of ‘two minds’ about something…that’s the fast track to getting yourself killed in the wild it seems to me. “Should I run or do I stand still…what’s the right thing to…aaarrgggg..”…Chomp, Chomp!! And in the same manner we can get emotionally eaten…Chomp!!. by being of two minds…as I’ve mentioned above I’ve been Chomp Chomped!! by resentment many times at saying ‘Yes’ when I should have probably said ‘No’.

I believe this very human predicament is the result of a nervous system that can talk to itself…this is a predicament driven by language IMO.

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“I’m not in a position to do that for you with a glad heart.”

I’m playing around with, yes, language.

It’s been helpful to me to make the “can I?” answer include emotional congruence and resource as well.

“I don’t have the energy for that right now.”

Same, in some ways, as saying “I don’t have the money for that right now” when, yeah, you have it in savings but it isn’t a YES to use it for ___ right now.

“That’s not a YES for me right now.”

But why?!?! You COULD.

“With the life I have left, my time and energy are precious to me. It’s not my YES, and if I did it anyway the resentment I would honestly feel would harm our relationship.”

Eeek. So honest and real. And saying no to someone who believes they have some rightful claim on our life’s energy can mean creating distance or even endings.

It’s true I am capable of resenting something that is actually my YES… unless I let go of the wish that it was different. I’ve come to know, the hard way, that if I do something that actually IS a NO for me, the repair is, well, not a “scratch” that can be buffed out. More like a gouge that needs a lot more to set right.

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This. If we establish a practice where if we hear NO we say thank you, for the realness and not injecting resentment into the relationship, we’re expanding freedom.

NO gives the other person the information they need to navigate their lives. They do not have to be “pleased.” I do believe when we get truth from someone, it is worthy of thanks.

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This resonates for me. I picked up this theme from Rick during one on one coaching that we only have so much time left and YOLO, y’all. Really helps me honor my boundaries when I think about the cost and how precious my time is on this earth.

And, helpful to identify that people have that energy of feeling a rightful claim to my energy. I have experienced that all my life without having language for it…whether it was my family culture, forced religion, or for the last 20 years, my own activist community. Everyone gets a piece of Dru. He owes us his time and life energy. I believed that and took that on and felt I owed a martyrdom. So refreshing to shift out of that mindset, but it’s been hard to breathe through the inevitable loss and grief that comes from the ending of certain relationships and connections when I put myself first and refuse to self-abandon for others.

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The expression “put myself first” does NOT work for me. I think my heart orientation doesn’t prioritize so I need another posture.

My student-teacher orientation means that yes, I am learning/exploring and I am also teaching (even if imperfectly).

It matters to me to be consistent-ish and definitely not hypocritical. Which means, what I stand for I want to be able to reflect/articulate is what I stand for FOR YOU, too. (Even if you don’t value it the way I do.)

For example, some people value others being OBLIGATED to them. Perhaps it is because those people have lower status in their minds (children, less wealthy, less _____). Whatever. Or they “sacrificed” in the past, or did a favor, and now they are “owed.” (See parent wanting adult children to be obligated.)

For me, I do not want anyone anywhere to self-abandon what is their YES, their choice for how to use their life force, time, energy, money, attention… JUST for me. I stand for the Yes-Yes or please use your energy another way.

From that perspective, I can say: “I stand for each of us doing only what is a YES for us. This isn’t a YES for me, and just I’d want it to be if it wasn’t a YES for you… it is not going to happen this way.”

Is that putting me first? It is putting what I value and stand for first in how I operate this Precious Now. It is both self-aware and as safe and respectful and fredom-honoring of the We-Space that I can come up with.

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This is something I find really hard to do. Particularly when I’m a No because I’m tired or emotional or feeling dead and empty and the saying of the no means I need to then experience and hold my child’s meltdown and emotions of frustration and boredom and anger. This often leads to a 0-100 response for me. A surge of anger and rage and sometimes verbally lash out at that point with my anger and frustration which then results in my child expressing hurt and sad tears and then me feeling guilty because she is just a child doing what children do and I demanded more from her than I could even do myself. At that point it all pulls me together somehow and I’m able to be the adult again and repair the situation as best I can. But I wish the cycle didn’t even exist because she is truly such a wonderful child. And I feel like I am
Killing her eagerness and joy because my eagerness and joy are dead. I always wish there was someone else there to help both me and her, or to protect her from me and give her the life and experiences she deserves.

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This is where I get stuck. When I realise I’ve said and done things that leave others- again often my child- doing something JUST for me or because I’ve said it must be done. Because I am making them somehow with my words or my emotions or pressure,. I feel sick and sad and and don’t want it to be that way. But I feel generally at a loss in how to manage those situations. Particularly when her no is strong but it is something that needs doing and even giving Choice about timing to do the thing that needs doing, there is still a no and the day has gone and it is bedtime and needs to be done. There are times when I manage this well I’d say and other times when I don’t have the capacity for calm support and negotiation.

There is so much to all of this for me. When I start thinking about my relationships with adults it becomes even morE confusing.

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The Powerful Pause is one way to be with what IS – including a meltdown – without needing to change it.

Allowing (!) our children to have their feelings.

It’s Hard to Human.

For us all.

Parents have a sacred role to tell little ones what to do at times, and insist, even force if needed. People who do not “like” this I believe are both the leading edge of exploring healthy ways to honor boundaries – mine, theirs, ours – and, yeah, not becoming a pushover or letting our kid not wear a seatbelt because they are shrieking about it.

It was “easier” when parents were the absolute Lords of their Castle and God help the child who resisted! (Sounds like you had a parent like that). I have sought with my older kids when they were growing up and with my kids now to communicate that there are “musts” and while we seek to make those as few as possible, they are a part of childhood. I do my best to make invitations “Would you like to…” when they are real invitations and I’m okay with no. I say things like, “I need you to bring that kind of play to a close now – it’s too much for my nervous system right now.” I stay on my side, owning my limits, while still (because if I can’t leave them I need to, where possible, make the environment tolerable. Ear plugs help!)

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Yes. It is Hard to Human.

You are right on the money with the parental experience I had and my challenge with boundary limits- mine, theirs, ours. I do what I can where I can but I don’t think I have enough true depth of understanding yet to have my own truly healthy boundaries and supporting my child to have her own. Or even feeling :100: safe if others express their own. I’m always waiting for the other shoe to drop (or the punishment).
I am noticing a lot of jealousy and resentment in myself lately.

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To me this is Great Parenting. It’s humble enough to be open and repair-willing to harms or things that didn’t work out. Healthy Boundaries are useful, indeed. For me mutually beneficial co-creation even more so.

Boundaries help me to avoid resentment. When I notice resentment, chances are i did something or felt like i was forced to cope with something that I really and truly don’t want to.

And, cough, sometimes I resent a situation when with deeper exploration I can find a YES for me. “I resent my daughter for flicking my hand away when i was JUST trying to COMFORT her!!!” Well, I was trying to comfort her for her, yes, but also for me because her shrieks go right through my system. And, cough, truth is that when I’m distressed I don’t always like or welcome or tolerate touch. Most times, yes. Sometimes GET AWAY FROM ME!

Resentment to me is an excellent signaller, even if the signal takes a bit to decode.

Same with jealousy. Something matters to me that I’m not getting or embodying. It means it matters to me and is calling to at least be a part of how I focus and use my life force – even if I cannot have it or get it right now. Or even next week.

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Wish someone had shared this with me growing up. It’s such potent wisdom. The Generous Ones rightfully benefit from staying in Our Yes!

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Standing up for yourself, in a kind way, is like tracing a line on the beach: you’re making clear where your space is, but you’re still enjoying the beach together.

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“Maybe” is actually a “NO”

This applies in consent… and it is so useful when marketing to others.

“Pushing on their NO (or their maybe)” is not the way I choose to live.

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